Steve Eddy said:
But when conducting a listening test isn't a person concentrating on a correct choice? This can very well influence his perception and the way HOW he listens. While some people can listen in a same fashion (as not under test), most of the untrained or unacustomed ones probably can't.
And how are you so sure that this is is taken care by a different brain function? But even if it is, the other brain function can be effected in exactly the same way.
Coming back to the subject of information retrival from recordings, it is true that understanding lyrics may indicate something about the system (and it definitely does IMO), but what I like the most is when certain sounds and cues are jumping at me spontaniously when I don't even try to concentrate on noticing them (like listening to an old recording being under impression of doing it for the first time). For example, when listening to ‘The Great Gig’, did you noticed how the pitch is changing at the end of the track, almost like somebody was intentionally changing the speed of a tape. I never noticed it before, and when I listen now it is so obvious that I can't miss it.
I dont believe you should " try " to hear details. Either they are there or they are not.
Every now and then i haul out either the PP 6bq5 tube or the marantz 2230 amp and hook em up, gives me a frame of reference.
Believe me they dont stay hooked up long.Sounds muddy and slow and i use to be a die hard tube and marantz 22xx fan.
ron
Every now and then i haul out either the PP 6bq5 tube or the marantz 2230 amp and hook em up, gives me a frame of reference.
Believe me they dont stay hooked up long.Sounds muddy and slow and i use to be a die hard tube and marantz 22xx fan.
ron
Pink Floyd 'lyrics.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the backwards recorded lyrics on side 2 (vinyl) of the wall.
Track is "Empty Spaces" and I've just found the lyrics off the web.
[backwards message:]
"Congratulations, You have just discovered the secret message.
Please send your answer to 'Old Pink',
Care of the funny farm, Chalfont..." - Spoken By Roger
[...interrupted...]
"Roger, Caroline's on the phone..." - Unknown Voice
When I was young, I recorded the track onto a cassette then turned round the spindles to play it backwards. (Later I had a video recorder that didn't quite mute the audio when playing backwards, now I have access to Adobe Audition...)
Richard (I'm actually in Chalfont at the moment, whether this is actually the funny farm is arguable.)
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the backwards recorded lyrics on side 2 (vinyl) of the wall.
Track is "Empty Spaces" and I've just found the lyrics off the web.
[backwards message:]
"Congratulations, You have just discovered the secret message.
Please send your answer to 'Old Pink',
Care of the funny farm, Chalfont..." - Spoken By Roger
[...interrupted...]
"Roger, Caroline's on the phone..." - Unknown Voice
When I was young, I recorded the track onto a cassette then turned round the spindles to play it backwards. (Later I had a video recorder that didn't quite mute the audio when playing backwards, now I have access to Adobe Audition...)
Richard (I'm actually in Chalfont at the moment, whether this is actually the funny farm is arguable.)
speaking of Pink Floyd...
i've never really been a great fan (i'm 22, PF is before my time) however since i've built my LMxxxx based amp i listen to it all the time. I've heard DSOTM and The Wall through some fairly decent systems courtesy of a friend of mine (he's a Pink Floyd nut) and i tell you what, he's gonna be in tears when he hears the quality of such a seemingly inferior 'chip' amplifier.
Fed by my Technics SL-P999 CD player the sound is so clear you hear all sorts of details you've never heard before. Like string arrangements, hand drums and even unintentional scrapes on the guitar strings
National really hit the nail on the head with the Overture series!
(p.s don't know if you've seen this but they have a 3 channel overture chip now for the simplest surround setup ever, pick a decent chip for the main LR and whack in an LM4781 for the centre/rear channels. brilliant!)
i've never really been a great fan (i'm 22, PF is before my time) however since i've built my LMxxxx based amp i listen to it all the time. I've heard DSOTM and The Wall through some fairly decent systems courtesy of a friend of mine (he's a Pink Floyd nut) and i tell you what, he's gonna be in tears when he hears the quality of such a seemingly inferior 'chip' amplifier.
Fed by my Technics SL-P999 CD player the sound is so clear you hear all sorts of details you've never heard before. Like string arrangements, hand drums and even unintentional scrapes on the guitar strings
National really hit the nail on the head with the Overture series!
(p.s don't know if you've seen this but they have a 3 channel overture chip now for the simplest surround setup ever, pick a decent chip for the main LR and whack in an LM4781 for the centre/rear channels. brilliant!)
My go...
To me, it sounds like this:
"Get your hand-baggage and your passports ready and pass the green flight to customs and enwenucation. BA 2 1 5 to Rome, Prado (?), Naples. Barry Rotesh(?) please, clear through customs and ??? passengers. BA 2 1 5 to Rome Prado Naples. Please receive(?) your presents(?) ..."
NB - it's not "follow" the green flight or line, and it doesn't sound much like "immigration" either.
Interestingly enough: I was listening to this on my Sennheiser headphones plugged into my scumbag computer soundcard, and found it was more intelligible if I EQ'd out everything under 500Hz and above 6Khz! I think this demonstrates that maximum intelligibility is equivalent to maximum listening pleasure.
Cheers
IH
To me, it sounds like this:
"Get your hand-baggage and your passports ready and pass the green flight to customs and enwenucation. BA 2 1 5 to Rome, Prado (?), Naples. Barry Rotesh(?) please, clear through customs and ??? passengers. BA 2 1 5 to Rome Prado Naples. Please receive(?) your presents(?) ..."
NB - it's not "follow" the green flight or line, and it doesn't sound much like "immigration" either.
Interestingly enough: I was listening to this on my Sennheiser headphones plugged into my scumbag computer soundcard, and found it was more intelligible if I EQ'd out everything under 500Hz and above 6Khz! I think this demonstrates that maximum intelligibility is equivalent to maximum listening pleasure.
Cheers
IH
Besed on the professional work I've done with organoleptic sensory tests and kinesthetic testing, plus amateur work on sound, I can confidently answer, "No. Unlikely. And generally not." Either you hear a difference or you don't. For most people, egos aren't on the line, there's no "test pressure," we're just trying to get at an accurate answer about thresholds, perception, and distinction.
Peter Daniel said:
The research done using known audible phenomena indicate that once a listener knows how to identify a difference (i.e. knows what to listen for) they can readily identify those differences under blind conditions.
This is why listener training is so important when testing across population samples.
I'm sure that if you just throw someone into a test without their having any sort of bearings or idea what to listen for, they would likely perform miserably. As jj used to say, it's easy to get null results, even with phenomena that are known to be audible. The hard part is getting positive results. And that's why the more serious research places such an emphasis on listener training.
Now, in the case of the cable directionality tests we're planning to run, we have at least one person who has indicated that he hears a specific difference when cables are reversed (i.e. image shifting) so he already knows what to listen for. And the research indicates that if this image shifting is in fact an actual audible phenomenon, he should be able to reliably detect it even under blind conditions.
What I said was that language processing was done in a different part of the brain. And I don't know that you can necessarily extrapolate to other parts of the brain.
Yes. Once you know what to look for, it's easily spotted.
Rather like two paintings which differ only by a single brush stroke. Once you've identified that difference, even under blind conditions you'll be able to pick it out.
But I still don't know that we can establish that initially noticing these things necessarily is any indication of system quality versus simply listening differently.
se
Peter Daniel said:But what if a $10,000 prize is to be won, when the answer is correct? Ask Millwood for details
That's a demonstration, not research. I seriously doubt that Stanley Lipshitz or David Clark offered their test subjects large sums of money if they were able to tell A from B. I know that I don't; we pay our panelists a certain fee regardless of their results.
Brings up an interesting point- if you put some contingent money on the line, might it not increase the chances of detection?
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