i was just reading some older posts on this thread and realsied i had mentioned the vandersteen 2C. for all tose of you who are hoping ot integrate a 8" woofer with a 1" tweeter it must be mentioned that the 1B does exactly this that too with a XO slope that is not steep so it can be done you only have to be judicious like Richard Vandersteen.
Hi Sai
I came across this thread just today..
I have built two powered subs, and could give you some suggestions as well as an audition right here in Bangalore! My drivers are both 12 inch drivers, one is a sealed box , downfiring, and the other uses a passive radiator, which is a bit different. The subs are both plate amps, one is 175watts and the other 250wrms. I could also give you some input on amps-I have an AKSA solid state one and another is a tube push pull, both driving home made speaker systems.
You can email me at gjo@dtsam.com, offlist, giving me your phone number and we can take it from there. BTW, I live near Cooke Town.
I came across this thread just today..
I have built two powered subs, and could give you some suggestions as well as an audition right here in Bangalore! My drivers are both 12 inch drivers, one is a sealed box , downfiring, and the other uses a passive radiator, which is a bit different. The subs are both plate amps, one is 175watts and the other 250wrms. I could also give you some input on amps-I have an AKSA solid state one and another is a tube push pull, both driving home made speaker systems.
You can email me at gjo@dtsam.com, offlist, giving me your phone number and we can take it from there. BTW, I live near Cooke Town.
Originally posted by pixo
"I came across two Pioneer drivers - a 10" rated for 300W and a 12" rated for 650W (1000W peak!?) originally meant for car audio. I wondered if those would make a good choice for a subwoofer. What do you guys think?"
Hi pixo,
there are two variants of these...one will be the C (closed box) and the other F( FreeAir ) series...i think if at all u shud try choosing the C series because this one is intended for a box. I really dont know what exactly would be the difference...but i feel the suspensions would be stiffer in the F than the C and may be the Bl product too will be a little different.
Ok regarding car woofers..these are some hints...
From the data sheets provided the Qts seems very high of the order of 0.7. This might be primarily due to a low Qes..resulting from the high voice coil inductance and the low dc resistance. Typically the drivers are rated at 2 ohms etc to improve their efficiency in CAR applications where deriving higher audio power is a costly affair.( remember the standard source u have is a max 14.4 V DC)
Low voice coil DC resistance or effective impedence has another problem in that the damping factor of the amplifier ( which is a ratio of the speaker impedence to the amps output impedence) is low. This might pose problems especially with subwoofers whose cones are meant to flap around a bit. The problems increase if u use a reflexd enclosure and the sub port-resonance frequencies are not attenuated by an HPF.
and dont ever look at the numbers quoted for power!
But it wouldnt be a bad choice considering the fact that they are readily and cheaply available around the country and its difficult to source other good quality drivers here in india.
ajju
"I came across two Pioneer drivers - a 10" rated for 300W and a 12" rated for 650W (1000W peak!?) originally meant for car audio. I wondered if those would make a good choice for a subwoofer. What do you guys think?"
Hi pixo,
there are two variants of these...one will be the C (closed box) and the other F( FreeAir ) series...i think if at all u shud try choosing the C series because this one is intended for a box. I really dont know what exactly would be the difference...but i feel the suspensions would be stiffer in the F than the C and may be the Bl product too will be a little different.
Ok regarding car woofers..these are some hints...
From the data sheets provided the Qts seems very high of the order of 0.7. This might be primarily due to a low Qes..resulting from the high voice coil inductance and the low dc resistance. Typically the drivers are rated at 2 ohms etc to improve their efficiency in CAR applications where deriving higher audio power is a costly affair.( remember the standard source u have is a max 14.4 V DC)
Low voice coil DC resistance or effective impedence has another problem in that the damping factor of the amplifier ( which is a ratio of the speaker impedence to the amps output impedence) is low. This might pose problems especially with subwoofers whose cones are meant to flap around a bit. The problems increase if u use a reflexd enclosure and the sub port-resonance frequencies are not attenuated by an HPF.
and dont ever look at the numbers quoted for power!
But it wouldnt be a bad choice considering the fact that they are readily and cheaply available around the country and its difficult to source other good quality drivers here in india.
ajju
thing and also was it there in that library).
gjo said:
Dear Sir (we indians address our elders with respect and judging from your photos in Jm'pur....) what drivers did you use? Enquiring minds wat to know. U used a 12" facing down?ouch. what is the Mms. any exp with cone sag? I would also be interested in knowing more about your push pull tube amp.
ajju said:
I have used the C. The Q is very high (above 1) in a 1 cu. ft sealed box. However I managed to get it to work fairly well using a 8" long 4" dia stuffed port. I dont know what this sort of tuning is called (aperiodic? short stuffed TL?). XOed 12db at 80Hz and drven by a 60W/ch rms amp they perfrom ok for the car whre road noise etc maskes the details anyway. All I use them for is to lay some foundation to my 6". I use 2 of these in my car they have foam surrounds so they will age soon. I think there is better available at the price. I think Nagpal at Sonotone will have something I have to find the time to visit him.
Hi Navin
Hey dont let the gray hair fool you-I'm still young at heart..
The sealed downfiring box uses the same ACI DV 12 dvc driver that you have. No, I dont seem to have any problem so far with cone sag (but I havent inspected it carefully recently, so I dont know!). The other sub uses both the driver and 15 inch PR from Lambda Acoustics mounted vertically. This has REAL punch, and I passed on the older one to my sons, who use it for computer games and the like-it works quite okay there). Both use MDF boxes.
The Lambda driver is probably one of the best sub drivers around, and uses a Faraday ring (which the Scanspeaks use), weighs over 10 kgs and performs very well. I have another one from them lying with my brother in Nashville, which I have to bring back with me on my next trip to the US. Lambda was founded by Nick McKinney who closed shop earlier this year because of adverse market conditions and he had a close out sale posted on various fora. Check their site-www.lambdacoustics.com
The push pull is from Welborne Labs-they dont carry this model any more. I am in the process of upgrading it with Caddock resisters and Multicap capacitors replacing the stock ones, hope to do it sometime soon. I got it as a kit, and it was very heavy-maybe about 15 kgs, with very high quality Magnequest output transformers, Svetlana EL 34s etc. I used up a lot of goodwill getting various bakras(or maybe I should say "mules") bringing all the bits and pieces across to India-each and every one of them told me this was the last time they would do this for me!!
Regards
George
Hey dont let the gray hair fool you-I'm still young at heart..
The sealed downfiring box uses the same ACI DV 12 dvc driver that you have. No, I dont seem to have any problem so far with cone sag (but I havent inspected it carefully recently, so I dont know!). The other sub uses both the driver and 15 inch PR from Lambda Acoustics mounted vertically. This has REAL punch, and I passed on the older one to my sons, who use it for computer games and the like-it works quite okay there). Both use MDF boxes.
The Lambda driver is probably one of the best sub drivers around, and uses a Faraday ring (which the Scanspeaks use), weighs over 10 kgs and performs very well. I have another one from them lying with my brother in Nashville, which I have to bring back with me on my next trip to the US. Lambda was founded by Nick McKinney who closed shop earlier this year because of adverse market conditions and he had a close out sale posted on various fora. Check their site-www.lambdacoustics.com
The push pull is from Welborne Labs-they dont carry this model any more. I am in the process of upgrading it with Caddock resisters and Multicap capacitors replacing the stock ones, hope to do it sometime soon. I got it as a kit, and it was very heavy-maybe about 15 kgs, with very high quality Magnequest output transformers, Svetlana EL 34s etc. I used up a lot of goodwill getting various bakras(or maybe I should say "mules") bringing all the bits and pieces across to India-each and every one of them told me this was the last time they would do this for me!!
Regards
George
The single DV 12 is in a 85 lt box, the Lambda/PR sub is in a smaller one, maybe about 70 lts, or smaller.
You could say that hobby fatigue has now set in for me, after I took up the Joe D'Appolito Audax HT speaker system, and got an LCD projector(Panasonic)..The speakers are almost done-the centre channel is finished the Main L-R has been gathering dust, crossovers done waiting to be assembled with the drivers. After completing this I dont want to do anything for some time! Having sunk a lot of time and resources into this hobby I think I badly need a break( before I change my mind!)
AVS Forum has a very interesting and long thread about this project(Audax HT system) with many guys jumping on board after one guy started it.
You could say that hobby fatigue has now set in for me, after I took up the Joe D'Appolito Audax HT speaker system, and got an LCD projector(Panasonic)..The speakers are almost done-the centre channel is finished the Main L-R has been gathering dust, crossovers done waiting to be assembled with the drivers. After completing this I dont want to do anything for some time! Having sunk a lot of time and resources into this hobby I think I badly need a break( before I change my mind!)
AVS Forum has a very interesting and long thread about this project(Audax HT system) with many guys jumping on board after one guy started it.
Sai
Ashok is right. MDF is readily available from many sources here in Bangalore. Nuwud is one brand, they have an office here, IIRC. There are various brands of imported MDF, including from New Zealand, that I have seen here, I think it also comes from Indonesia/Malaysia.
I have used MDF for many speaker projects and never had any problem whatsoever in sourcing it, both 12 mm, 18 mm and in one case 25 mm.
Navin: Ashok is on my private, limited distribution list for good friends only- consisting of like minded individuals who enjoy good jokes!!
George
Ashok is right. MDF is readily available from many sources here in Bangalore. Nuwud is one brand, they have an office here, IIRC. There are various brands of imported MDF, including from New Zealand, that I have seen here, I think it also comes from Indonesia/Malaysia.
I have used MDF for many speaker projects and never had any problem whatsoever in sourcing it, both 12 mm, 18 mm and in one case 25 mm.
Navin: Ashok is on my private, limited distribution list for good friends only- consisting of like minded individuals who enjoy good jokes!!
George
we get MDF as high as 35mm here however i now feel that an 18mm box is all you need if teh box is well braced. in fact i am now looking at building wit a 12mm "skin" the only issue might be finding enough "grab" for the joints. However i think i might be able to solve that using resin bonded fiberglass.
Hi Dinesh
A very good morning to you from Bangalore! Very pleasant day here today, great day to play golf..
Sai
You may want to sign on to the basslist- www.diyspeakers.net. I have been on this for many years and got a lot of information about subwoofers as well as speaker systems. Subscribe in "digest mode" otherwise you may get swamped.
There are a lot of knowledgeable people on the list, though sometimes they explain with American examples, especially for some of the products which we cannot source locally. Many experienced speaker builders will be happy to answer newbie questions. Sometimes you also get some special deals or discounts from vendors who are basslist members, though bringing stuff from the US requires considerable planning.
George
A very good morning to you from Bangalore! Very pleasant day here today, great day to play golf..
Sai
You may want to sign on to the basslist- www.diyspeakers.net. I have been on this for many years and got a lot of information about subwoofers as well as speaker systems. Subscribe in "digest mode" otherwise you may get swamped.
There are a lot of knowledgeable people on the list, though sometimes they explain with American examples, especially for some of the products which we cannot source locally. Many experienced speaker builders will be happy to answer newbie questions. Sometimes you also get some special deals or discounts from vendors who are basslist members, though bringing stuff from the US requires considerable planning.
George
George,
MP's number (from another post) would be welcome. I lost it. we exchanged a few emails a year or so back then my HD crashed.
I am always willing to look at co-ordinating imports but at teh sme time I get more excited if there is decent stuff to be found in India. MP's 12" (imported or not) mixed with Angshu's 5 and 6" (bolton) and the PI tweeter might be able to be the foundation of a good HT/AV system.
mix in a 5 channel power amp and a DVD player which has a decoder and vol control and you are in business in fact the power amp and sub can be kept outta sight and all one sees is a slim DVD player and the 5 speakers (less than 10l each).
granted this is no audiophile sysmte but it is what most of my friends are looking for. A DVD for Rs 7000, 5.1 amp and speakers for under Rs 30K. for the cost of a Sony Boom box you get a reasonably better system.
MP's number (from another post) would be welcome. I lost it. we exchanged a few emails a year or so back then my HD crashed.
I am always willing to look at co-ordinating imports but at teh sme time I get more excited if there is decent stuff to be found in India. MP's 12" (imported or not) mixed with Angshu's 5 and 6" (bolton) and the PI tweeter might be able to be the foundation of a good HT/AV system.
mix in a 5 channel power amp and a DVD player which has a decoder and vol control and you are in business in fact the power amp and sub can be kept outta sight and all one sees is a slim DVD player and the 5 speakers (less than 10l each).
granted this is no audiophile sysmte but it is what most of my friends are looking for. A DVD for Rs 7000, 5.1 amp and speakers for under Rs 30K. for the cost of a Sony Boom box you get a reasonably better system.
Navin
Mahendra's phone numbers are as follows:
020-6355702/6350996/6351752/6356607
He willbe exhibiting at the show organised by Times group at Taj in Bombay from 7-9th and also says that he is launching some new products-8 inch and 10 inch subs as well as some mids.
You may want to meet him if you have the time.
Email is palesha@vsnl.com
George
Mahendra's phone numbers are as follows:
020-6355702/6350996/6351752/6356607
He willbe exhibiting at the show organised by Times group at Taj in Bombay from 7-9th and also says that he is launching some new products-8 inch and 10 inch subs as well as some mids.
You may want to meet him if you have the time.
Email is palesha@vsnl.com
George
Mahendra Palesha
Navin
Their stall should be either MPTV or Palesha Electronics or Sonoku. I am sure their subwoofers' sound should help you locate their stand!!
Mahendra is about 40+. You may want to call their office at Pune and ask for details.
George
P.S. I may be a bit inactive for some time on this thread, since we have some US business visitors here from next week for a fortnight.
Navin
Their stall should be either MPTV or Palesha Electronics or Sonoku. I am sure their subwoofers' sound should help you locate their stand!!
Mahendra is about 40+. You may want to call their office at Pune and ask for details.
George
P.S. I may be a bit inactive for some time on this thread, since we have some US business visitors here from next week for a fortnight.
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