Sai,
Where are u put up in blr..!!
if u r somwhere near koramangala region there are a host of shops that sell plywood and glass..In fact there is a huge store on outer ring road ..they seem to have all kind of material...! And i've found nuwud at a couple of places..! Let me know if u want to check them out...!
the JBL's...
If ur going for a good stereo setup to match ur sub dont go for these...better get one of those 5" from peerless (as naveen suggested some time bk and if u want them from the local market)...
The 4" jbls i ve are again car speakers i guess..single driver with a wizzer cone...They sound a lot more mature than any other similar unit...the response seems controlled (especially the highs, they are not accentuated and dont posses that charecteristic harshness associated with car speakers), and reasonable power handling...( day b4 yesterday i managed to pass DC thru one of them...the result was the glue melted off and the vc got displaced..the VC dint blow though...and surprisingly i centred it back later using the same process...
So that explains how much torture the VC can withstand...luckily the VC former had an AL strip on the inside to dissipate the heat...)
The specs i measured for these were..
fs - 90Hz
Vas - 4.1L
mms - 5.6gms
Qts - .34
Rdc 4ohms and the voice coil dia is around 1" so i suspect good efficiency too...! the basket is a stamped steel frame. The cone is made of paper coated with a polymer.
Where are u put up in blr..!!
if u r somwhere near koramangala region there are a host of shops that sell plywood and glass..In fact there is a huge store on outer ring road ..they seem to have all kind of material...! And i've found nuwud at a couple of places..! Let me know if u want to check them out...!
the JBL's...
If ur going for a good stereo setup to match ur sub dont go for these...better get one of those 5" from peerless (as naveen suggested some time bk and if u want them from the local market)...
The 4" jbls i ve are again car speakers i guess..single driver with a wizzer cone...They sound a lot more mature than any other similar unit...the response seems controlled (especially the highs, they are not accentuated and dont posses that charecteristic harshness associated with car speakers), and reasonable power handling...( day b4 yesterday i managed to pass DC thru one of them...the result was the glue melted off and the vc got displaced..the VC dint blow though...and surprisingly i centred it back later using the same process...
So that explains how much torture the VC can withstand...luckily the VC former had an AL strip on the inside to dissipate the heat...)The specs i measured for these were..
fs - 90Hz
Vas - 4.1L
mms - 5.6gms
Qts - .34
Rdc 4ohms and the voice coil dia is around 1" so i suspect good efficiency too...! the basket is a stamped steel frame. The cone is made of paper coated with a polymer.
MDF & damping material
Hi,
Eventhough I do not have much experience in Diy stuff. I would like to throw some light on the subject. For mdf just try some shops in and around city market. Infact there are whole lot of shops who sell MDF sheets behind citymarket.
And for the damping material just try a company called anutone. Just contact them they may have some solution for your project.
Their email id is anutone@vsnl.com and their website is www.anutone.com. They are into consultancy and manufacture of solid acoustic boards and stuff like that.
regards,
Anand
Hi,
Eventhough I do not have much experience in Diy stuff. I would like to throw some light on the subject. For mdf just try some shops in and around city market. Infact there are whole lot of shops who sell MDF sheets behind citymarket.
And for the damping material just try a company called anutone. Just contact them they may have some solution for your project.
Their email id is anutone@vsnl.com and their website is www.anutone.com. They are into consultancy and manufacture of solid acoustic boards and stuff like that.
regards,
Anand
That URL ROCKS!
Guys,
Check out the URL Doug has posted on the thread, this pretty much tells us the A to Z of MDF.
Also check out the Wood Working tips.
This URL is very good for a fresher like me. Thanks Doug.
By the way,
Any suggestions for the Amplifier for the Shiva.
I am also giving a serious thought to go in for a ported than a sealed. Pretty confused. And ported stuff is all Greek and Latin to me. Any help?
Guys,
Check out the URL Doug has posted on the thread, this pretty much tells us the A to Z of MDF.
Also check out the Wood Working tips.
This URL is very good for a fresher like me. Thanks Doug.
By the way,
Any suggestions for the Amplifier for the Shiva.
I am also giving a serious thought to go in for a ported than a sealed. Pretty confused. And ported stuff is all Greek and Latin to me. Any help?
Re: Re: MDF and marine ply
What I want to try is 12mm thick glass sheet. I think it will be very good, as an add-on on MDF or ply, for deadening lows and mids (its natural resonance is at very high frequencies, because of its rigidity), and it's also very heavy, so it should weigh down any MDF or ply to which it is stuck.
I intend to make the box of MDF, and then take internal dimensions of the panels, and get glass sheets cut to the right size. Then I intend to stick the glass sheets to the inner walls using my beloved thick layer of Araldite. Should be effective, don't you think?
Lead sheet, on the other hand, will have ultra low resonance frequencies (it's almost like putty). I'd somehow prefer something as heavy as lead but with a high natural resonance frequency, so that it offsets the resonance frequency of timber/MDF more effectively. Lead should be quite good, nevertheless, though.
regards,
Tarun
What can I say? That's me...navin said:
One more reason I use Araldite is because if you use a slightly thick layer of it, it hardens to form a very accoustically dead separate layer all by itself, perhaps half an mm thick. This is because it has a lot of "body" after it hardens, and hard Araldite is very very accoustically dead... just try playing with a dried lump of it left behind after use. Therefore, two sheets with Araldite in between is actually three sheets with differing resonance patterns, making a very good composite sheet for vibration absorption.
Wow, I hadn't realised that too much thickness can be bad. In any case, if I need very heavy thickness, I'd prefer to use multiple layers of 18mm or 25mm sheets rather than a single thicker sheet.
Thanks for the Pydhonie pointer. Lead is one material I think which works very well for deadening panel vibrations.
What I want to try is 12mm thick glass sheet. I think it will be very good, as an add-on on MDF or ply, for deadening lows and mids (its natural resonance is at very high frequencies, because of its rigidity), and it's also very heavy, so it should weigh down any MDF or ply to which it is stuck.
I intend to make the box of MDF, and then take internal dimensions of the panels, and get glass sheets cut to the right size. Then I intend to stick the glass sheets to the inner walls using my beloved thick layer of Araldite. Should be effective, don't you think?
Lead sheet, on the other hand, will have ultra low resonance frequencies (it's almost like putty). I'd somehow prefer something as heavy as lead but with a high natural resonance frequency, so that it offsets the resonance frequency of timber/MDF more effectively. Lead should be quite good, nevertheless, though.
All the veneer I seem to see in timber shops is 4mm ply, with the veneer on one side as the outermost sheet. I have never seen 1.5mm veneer. Where do you get yours from? And I think I prefer the veneer being thicker, because it basically becomes one more layer (again with my beloved Araldite) to the panel.
Fat chance. Remember, I live in New Bombay. The prospect of travel to this place is so intimidating that some people I know who live barely thirty kilometres away in Breach Candy can't even imagine coming here, even when free JX92S auditions and free beer are on offer. So, take your threats elsewhere, mister.
regards,
Tarun
Interesting JBL
Thanks and regards,
Tarun
Wow, that's really interesting. How would you rate their clarity and delicacy? And how much did you pay for them? I've been wanting to try building an inexpensive four-speaker OB line array using smallish wide-range drivers, and my friend, the wize old AngshuDas suggested that car speakers would be a good place to begin looking. I originally wanted to try using the Philips dual-cone (easily available, Rs.220/each) but they have one major problem.... they're 8" in dia, thus making inter-driver distance a bit too long for useful line arrays. Your JBLs seem an excellent idea. Can you tell us some more? How high do they go, for instance? And can you give me a specific model number by which I can go looking in Lamington Road?ajju said:
Thanks and regards,
Tarun
Shiva in India???
Irony is that Shiva (the driver) is named after an Indian god. And it's available everywhere but India.
BTW, I guess you know that good pro bass drivers from Selenium are available in Bombay? Variac's lovely modded Basszilla uses the Selenium WPU1505, for which I got a quote of Rs.8000/each plus taxes. There is a steady supply through a big pro-sound establishment called Narain's. Check their Website (no prices, though). They are very prompt in responding to email, if you write to info at narainindia.com. I got price quotes and other information in 24 hours.
regards,
Tarun
Where do you get drivers like the Shiva in India? This becomes curiouser and curiouser...ssSai said:
Irony is that Shiva (the driver) is named after an Indian god. And it's available everywhere but India.
BTW, I guess you know that good pro bass drivers from Selenium are available in Bombay? Variac's lovely modded Basszilla uses the Selenium WPU1505, for which I got a quote of Rs.8000/each plus taxes. There is a steady supply through a big pro-sound establishment called Narain's. Check their Website (no prices, though). They are very prompt in responding to email, if you write to info at narainindia.com. I got price quotes and other information in 24 hours.
regards,
Tarun
tarun wrote.....All the veneer I seem to see in timber shops is 4mm ply..........Fat chance. Remember, I live in New Bombay. The prospect of travel to this place is so intimidating that some people I know who live barely thirty kilometres away in Breach Candy can't even imagine coming here, even when free JX92S auditions and free beer are on offer. So, take your threats elsewhere, mister.
thanks for the reminder. only u forget the moderators are more motivated than me
one day if I visit your area i will drop you a line. normally my ride is between BC and Worli and that is infuriating enough often it takes me as much as 20 mins to get home in the evening.
thanks for the reminder. only u forget the moderators are more motivated than me
one day if I visit your area i will drop you a line. normally my ride is between BC and Worli and that is infuriating enough often it takes me as much as 20 mins to get home in the evening.
My stereo Setup.!!??
I would like to request every one here for a favour (Just some info needed, not materialistic so dont worry).
I want to complement the subwoofer I am building with a stereo setup (later I dream of making it a home theater).
The choice of the subwoofer,midrange and tweeter, given that I live in India is my first obstacle. I can't keep getting things or waiting for things from abroad. I need to make the best out of what I can get here.
Any advice, help regarding the drivers will be useful.
Also as I had previously posted, I would like to ask you people again on the amplifier/s I can use. A dedicated amp for the sub and another for my stereo/hometheater setup.
AS AN UPDATE TO MY SUBWOOFER CONFIGURATION, I AM GIVING SERIOUS THOUGHT TO GO PORTED. I HAD IN MIND A SEALED CONFIGURATION WHEN I HAD STARTED OFF.
I would like to request every one here for a favour (Just some info needed, not materialistic so dont worry).
I want to complement the subwoofer I am building with a stereo setup (later I dream of making it a home theater).
The choice of the subwoofer,midrange and tweeter, given that I live in India is my first obstacle. I can't keep getting things or waiting for things from abroad. I need to make the best out of what I can get here.
Any advice, help regarding the drivers will be useful.
Also as I had previously posted, I would like to ask you people again on the amplifier/s I can use. A dedicated amp for the sub and another for my stereo/hometheater setup.
AS AN UPDATE TO MY SUBWOOFER CONFIGURATION, I AM GIVING SERIOUS THOUGHT TO GO PORTED. I HAD IN MIND A SEALED CONFIGURATION WHEN I HAD STARTED OFF.
Hello Doug!!,
>>That's " mister " Doug to you !!
It seems like the "That's mister ICEMAN to you" from TOP GUN! I watch TOP GUN every month and yet I have the same enthusiasm from the start to finish (Execpt when GOOSE dies).
I am using this "dream" at home and not in a car (I do not have one. Bikes are ones best bet in Bangalore). Check out my thread in diysub..... Many are stressing that I go in for a ported.
Note this fellow DIYers: The name "Dream" is copyrighted to Sai and Sai alone. Later as time passes by and my wallet swells, you will find the Dream range of audio systems by SAI.
*********
Thanks Ajju.
It was very nice of you for the offer. But I plant to check the MDF out in indranagar (its near to my place and MDF is pretty heavy for transportation) and I will tell you what happens. Any way I would really want to know about the jbl and the peerless.
You were talking about the 5" drivers peerless. I had planned to have two 8" and a tweeter on each of the stereo speakers. What is your opinion.
*********
Hi! TCPIP (I wish I knew your name)
Araldite is name of a product (glue) as well as the company right? If I want it, I will have to ask for "ARALDITE" or is it "Give me that glue from a company named Araldite".
I would like to know more on the advantages of using lead sheets inside a enclosure.
Regarding the Shiva, I am getting it from Australia (will taka a little more time than I thought). I will difinitely check the URL of Narain you have posted.
*********
Hello Vivek. Will difinitely update you on that.
>>That's " mister " Doug to you !!
It seems like the "That's mister ICEMAN to you" from TOP GUN! I watch TOP GUN every month and yet I have the same enthusiasm from the start to finish (Execpt when GOOSE dies).
I am using this "dream" at home and not in a car (I do not have one. Bikes are ones best bet in Bangalore). Check out my thread in diysub..... Many are stressing that I go in for a ported.
Note this fellow DIYers: The name "Dream" is copyrighted to Sai and Sai alone. Later as time passes by and my wallet swells, you will find the Dream range of audio systems by SAI.
*********
Thanks Ajju.
It was very nice of you for the offer. But I plant to check the MDF out in indranagar (its near to my place and MDF is pretty heavy for transportation) and I will tell you what happens. Any way I would really want to know about the jbl and the peerless.
You were talking about the 5" drivers peerless. I had planned to have two 8" and a tweeter on each of the stereo speakers. What is your opinion.
*********
Hi! TCPIP (I wish I knew your name
)Araldite is name of a product (glue) as well as the company right? If I want it, I will have to ask for "ARALDITE" or is it "Give me that glue from a company named Araldite".
I would like to know more on the advantages of using lead sheets inside a enclosure.
Regarding the Shiva, I am getting it from Australia (will taka a little more time than I thought). I will difinitely check the URL of Narain you have posted.
*********
Hello Vivek. Will difinitely update you on that.
Shiva Mk III
Mister Sai
I was just looking on the Adire website and it seems that the original Shiva was replaced by the Shiva Mk III version. The EBP ( efficiency bandwidth product ) is approx 50, which would indicate to me that this driver would be best suited in a closed box only.
The formula for finding the EBP is:
EBP = Fs divided by Qes
I also looked at the Shiva white paper for the Mark III and compared it to the white paper I downloaded about 1 year ago for the older Shiva, but the specs seem the same. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two
Does anyone know ??
Mister Doug
Mister Sai
I was just looking on the Adire website and it seems that the original Shiva was replaced by the Shiva Mk III version. The EBP ( efficiency bandwidth product ) is approx 50, which would indicate to me that this driver would be best suited in a closed box only.
The formula for finding the EBP is:
EBP = Fs divided by Qes
I also looked at the Shiva white paper for the Mark III and compared it to the white paper I downloaded about 1 year ago for the older Shiva, but the specs seem the same. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two
Does anyone know ??
Mister Doug
On the Shiva, lead, and Araldite
I'm now thirty-eight years old, and I've been seeing Araldite being used by my dad at home whenever he had to stick anything "for life", from as far back as I can remember. He says he's seen factories using Araldite by the gallon in the sixties. Araldite is a registered trademark of Vantico AG, Basle, Switzerland. Licensed user (in India): Vantico Performance Polymers Pvt Ltd, Ciba Research Centre, Mumbai. That sort of makes things clear: the Ciba-Geigy chaps have a hand in making/marketing it in India. Ciba too seems to be a Swiss company; check ciba.com.
All this is perhaps more information than you wanted to know. Bottom-line is that you can walk into practically any timber shop (or most stationery shops) in any city/town in India and ask for "Araldite" and you'll get it. Comes in blue cardboard boxes, and a 13gram pack cost me Rs.25. It's as commonly available in India as Fevicol. Like most stick-anything epoxy adhesives, it comes in two tubes. You have to squeeze out equal quantities of goo from both tubes, mix the two pastes thoroughly, and the resultant mixture will stick anything given time (about 12 to 24 hours). It even has its own Website now
Tarun
Oops... that's "Lord TCPIP, Fourteenth Baron of Activecrossovershire, Twice Removed, Member of the Order of the Oscillating BJT" to you. But you can just address me as "Lord Tarun, Sir." I'm very informal that way.
You must've seen I sign my posts as Tarun in DIYAudio.ssSai said:Hi! TCPIP (I wish I knew your name
Araldite is the name of the product. I'm quite certain it's an older invention than sliced bread.
I'm now thirty-eight years old, and I've been seeing Araldite being used by my dad at home whenever he had to stick anything "for life", from as far back as I can remember. He says he's seen factories using Araldite by the gallon in the sixties. Araldite is a registered trademark of Vantico AG, Basle, Switzerland. Licensed user (in India): Vantico Performance Polymers Pvt Ltd, Ciba Research Centre, Mumbai. That sort of makes things clear: the Ciba-Geigy chaps have a hand in making/marketing it in India. Ciba too seems to be a Swiss company; check ciba.com.All this is perhaps more information than you wanted to know.
Bottom-line is that you can walk into practically any timber shop (or most stationery shops) in any city/town in India and ask for "Araldite" and you'll get it. Comes in blue cardboard boxes, and a 13gram pack cost me Rs.25. It's as commonly available in India as Fevicol. Like most stick-anything epoxy adhesives, it comes in two tubes. You have to squeeze out equal quantities of goo from both tubes, mix the two pastes thoroughly, and the resultant mixture will stick anything given time (about 12 to 24 hours). It even has its own Website nowYou need to make your enclosure walls so inert or heavy or rigid that they don't vibrate with the air pressure when the driver cone moves. Lead being very heavy can be stuck to the walls of the enclosure and can make them heavy enough to not vibrate. Gives you accoustically inert enclosures and thus less harmonic distortion from the speaker as a whole. Can't overemphasise the importance of this specially for you, since you're talking of subwoofers, which have the highest air pressure levels in the enclosure (provided you're not building dipole woofers, which you don't seem to be doing).
Aah... That figures. I got my Jordans from the UK, my friends who have VIfas got them from abroad... ah well. India does not have a local market large enough for any reseller to stock these things, I guess.
Tarun
Oops... that's "Lord TCPIP, Fourteenth Baron of Activecrossovershire, Twice Removed, Member of the Order of the Oscillating BJT" to you. But you can just address me as "Lord Tarun, Sir." I'm very informal that way.
Araldite = Fevicol??
Hello Tarun!
I completely understand the reason you are using araldite for sticking the veeners. I thought I could do the same when I stick two half inch thick MDF boards. But when a 13g pack costs Rs 25, would that be logical on anyones part to stick the veener using araldite?
I do not know how much area does the mixed paste of araldite cover.
>> Its commonly available in India as fevicol.
This is where I get confused. Fevicol?? (Are you telling me that the white paste which the carpenters use to stick up wood? You get that in liter cans and they do not cost that much when compared to Rs 25/13g.) Would you clarify this please. Cos if you are telling that "fevicol (araldite=fevicol in india) " also has "body" after drying then there is no probs at all.
Hello Tarun!
I completely understand the reason you are using araldite for sticking the veeners. I thought I could do the same when I stick two half inch thick MDF boards. But when a 13g pack costs Rs 25, would that be logical on anyones part to stick the veener using araldite?
I do not know how much area does the mixed paste of araldite cover.
>> Its commonly available in India as fevicol.
This is where I get confused. Fevicol?? (Are you telling me that the white paste which the carpenters use to stick up wood? You get that in liter cans and they do not cost that much when compared to Rs 25/13g.) Would you clarify this please. Cos if you are telling that "fevicol (araldite=fevicol in india) " also has "body" after drying then there is no probs at all.
Mk3 is taking the carrot away from Bugs Bunny.
Hello Doug.
When the T/S parameters of both Shiva and Shiva MkIII are matching then the EBP should also
match. Then how is it that Shiva went fine wiht ported and the MkIII would not?
Lets check out whether anyone knows more about this. Any way I do not have the spec sheet of
the original Shiva.
Hello Doug.
When the T/S parameters of both Shiva and Shiva MkIII are matching then the EBP should also
match. Then how is it that Shiva went fine wiht ported and the MkIII would not?
Lets check out whether anyone knows more about this. Any way I do not have the spec sheet of
the original Shiva.
Re: Araldite = Fevicol??
Really sorry for causing this confusion.
And in case there's any residual confusion, please understand that Fevicol has no "body". That's one of the reasons some carpenters love it because it becomes invisible after drying, and soaks into pores of wood, and is more pliable to work with. Araldite has "body."
Tarun
Larger packs are cheaper, weight for weight. And then the expense of Araldite is small compared to the expense of the total project. When you spend Rs.65/sqft for 25mm thick MDF, and Rs.40/sqft for good wood veneer, you realise that adding Rs.500 more for Araldite is okay. Honest.ssSai said:
I am really embarassed at this bloomer. What I wanted to say was "Araldite is as commonly available as Fevicol." You'll usually find Araldite in the same shops which sell Fevicol. Et cetera.
Really sorry for causing this confusion.
And in case there's any residual confusion, please understand that Fevicol has no "body". That's one of the reasons some carpenters love it because it becomes invisible after drying, and soaks into pores of wood, and is more pliable to work with. Araldite has "body."
Tarun
White paper
>>When the T/S parameters of both Shiva and Shiva MkIII are matching then the EBP should also
match. Then how is it that Shiva went fine wiht ported and the MkIII would not?<<
Sai:
I just emailed you the Shiva White paper that I had on hand. The last revision date on it is 2001. Actually, I just looked on the Adire website at the White Paper there, and the last revision date on it is also 2001, so it seems that it is in fact the same paper. I'm not sure what changes there are for the Mk III. An email to Adire would probably answer that question. I'm confused or maybe I'm missing something.
Doug
>>When the T/S parameters of both Shiva and Shiva MkIII are matching then the EBP should also
match. Then how is it that Shiva went fine wiht ported and the MkIII would not?<<
Sai:
I just emailed you the Shiva White paper that I had on hand. The last revision date on it is 2001. Actually, I just looked on the Adire website at the White Paper there, and the last revision date on it is also 2001, so it seems that it is in fact the same paper. I'm not sure what changes there are for the Mk III. An email to Adire would probably answer that question. I'm confused or maybe I'm missing something.
Doug
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