Possibly the Hypex amp would close the gap as a low frequency amp *if* driven from a regulated supply ?
A 200W amp (on 4 Ohm) demands for dual rails of roughly 40V each and 10A of current delivery – no losses included.
So – with a 100% efficient amp you end up somewhere at 800W of installed PSU wattage - making for a bulky PSU like two of the MeanWell SP-500 SMPS a TRACO TIS 600-148 or the like – and – you have to either deal with the noisy fan or modify to convection cooling.
Going 100W on 8 Ohm would cut current requirement to 5A (and installed PSU wattage to around 400W) – still a different league of regulated SMPS's than the (free-run = unregulated) Hypex SMPS180 I'd guess .
Michael
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fans never run
The fans of the MeanWell S-350 SMPS are temp controlled and never run in my set up. Two S-350-48 providing 96v and 7.3amps is plenty for a UcD180. Might even power two modules very well, used vertically for one side of an active cross where the perfect monobloc powersupply seperation won't make any difference. No need for the expensive S-500.
Yeah - but Stig Erik has different listening habits
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BTW also found a open frame SMPS (no fan)
The USP-500 is rated for 8.5A non-forced cooling (10.5A forced cooling).
But can't be have that cheap as the S-350 of course.
Anyway - for a 400W amp target in bass its coming towards 1.6kW PSU wattage - and this times 4
!!! Michael
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Low power
That is the only problem with the single sided TP2050 output chips. Only 35/70 clean watts. Similar to a gainclone. 55/110/200 power with even better sonics can be had with STA517b output chips running at 50v but there is still no ideal diy module. The hifimediy T3 module is close and the 41Hz amp 11-HV would be nice but is unassembled surface mount and would take a few hours to build each one. If 41Hz wants to compete they must offer complete and tested modules.
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That is the only problem with the single sided TP2050 output chips. Only 35/70 clean watts. Similar to a gainclone. 55/110/200 power with even better sonics can be had with STA517b output chips running at 50v but there is still no ideal diy module. The hifimediy T3 module is close and the 41Hz amp 11-HV would be nice but is unassembled surface mount and would take a few hours to build each one. If 41Hz wants to compete they must offer complete and tested modules.
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Yeah - but Stig Erik has different listening habits
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BTW also found a open frame SMPS (no fan)
The USP-500 is rated for 8.5A non-forced cooling (10.5A forced cooling).
But can't be have that cheap as the S-350 of course.
Anyway - for a 400W amp target in bass its coming towards 1.6kW PSU wattage - and this times 4
Michael
If the ICE do the trick - no need then...
BTW, there are SMPS from Connexelectronic too - they seem to have lower idle consumption than the Hypex, but are not very detailed speced.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/connexelectronic/158604-switched-mode-power-supplies-smps.html
Michael
For a starter, I got the S-350 48V now up and running - not bad, but not like I love it as well - might be it needs some more break in time - will see.
Have you experimented with additional output capacitors? Any benefits to observe and how much uF ?
Michael
Added caps
I recently added 10,000uf and a .47uf foil bypass to the power rail of one of my Sure 2X100 amps. The S-350-36 SMPS didn't seem to complain. I have read posts stating that too much added capacitance will cause the SMPS to think it is a short causing it to shut down. I haven't done a critical AB comparison to an amp without the cap but on casual listening before and after, it didn't make much difference.
I recently added 10,000uf and a .47uf foil bypass to the power rail of one of my Sure 2X100 amps. The S-350-36 SMPS didn't seem to complain. I have read posts stating that too much added capacitance will cause the SMPS to think it is a short causing it to shut down. I haven't done a critical AB comparison to an amp without the cap but on casual listening before and after, it didn't make much difference.
Thanks - it seemed not to be a question about quantity but rather about quality at a first glance.
Old tricks are sometimes the best ones!
Added a roughly 10uF MP plus a mica - like already was beneficial in my linear PSUs – pretty ! - the „edgy shouting“ is gone and mids and treble clarity and sweetness is vastly restored and nicely matches the contoured bass.
Hi guys, you definitely should try this few bucks investment with your SMPSs.
Now I'm awaiting the new dual SMPS with split mass, Connexelectronic has under development - will be fun to compare.
Michael
Old tricks are sometimes the best ones!
Added a roughly 10uF MP plus a mica - like already was beneficial in my linear PSUs – pretty ! - the „edgy shouting“ is gone and mids and treble clarity and sweetness is vastly restored and nicely matches the contoured bass.
Hi guys, you definitely should try this few bucks investment with your SMPSs.
Now I'm awaiting the new dual SMPS with split mass, Connexelectronic has under development - will be fun to compare.
Michael
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I never A/B test (though I quite often go back and forth).
Memory serves way better than most think IMO (love to fool myself too).
Checking for more subtle things A/B is completely useless anyway - its just the coarse immediately obvious differences that can be captured that way - some details need more "intimate listening" to come up - A/B destroys that immediately.
Anyway - the bypassing trick is pretty obvious (at least with my amps) - everybody should be able to capture it easily - *even with* A/B testing
Michael
Memory serves way better than most think IMO (love to fool myself too
).Checking for more subtle things A/B is completely useless anyway - its just the coarse immediately obvious differences that can be captured that way - some details need more "intimate listening" to come up - A/B destroys that immediately.
Anyway - the bypassing trick is pretty obvious (at least with my amps) - everybody should be able to capture it easily - *even with* A/B testing
Michael
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quality
The Sure amp already comes with 6 excellent, super fast 330uf surface mount caps on the board, bypassed with two small poly caps, and has large ceramic chip caps right at each power pin for each IC. Adding the large tank cap and foil bypass didn't seem to make much difference other than taking longer to coast down after it is unplugged. It was just a quickie type of idea with no real expectations. The 5v supply of the driver chip is crucial to the sonics and I might spend some time on this. Maybe at least by adding some larger OsCons on top of the chip caps.
The Sure amp already comes with 6 excellent, super fast 330uf surface mount caps on the board, bypassed with two small poly caps, and has large ceramic chip caps right at each power pin for each IC. Adding the large tank cap and foil bypass didn't seem to make much difference other than taking longer to coast down after it is unplugged. It was just a quickie type of idea with no real expectations. The 5v supply of the driver chip is crucial to the sonics and I might spend some time on this. Maybe at least by adding some larger OsCons on top of the chip caps.
No Michael, I think you are wrong. Serious A-B testing is the only way to make sure there is REALLY a difference, and not just something we imagine. I have tried it, and even very subtle differences are possible to detect, no problem. Its up to you how long A and B should last, some listeners prefer an hour or so, personally I can do with 20-30 seconds.
The lack of serious testing is the main reason why complete BS products still have a life in High End audio.
A-B testing really has saved me a lot of money, since there is no need for purchasing worthless products like cables and such when you know there is no real difference.
The lack of serious testing is the main reason why complete BS products still have a life in High End audio.
A-B testing really has saved me a lot of money, since there is no need for purchasing worthless products like cables and such when you know there is no real difference.
Stig Erik, might be I put it too pronounced.
Sure you save a looot of money and time if you do not get into this cable thing
But as for A/B :
there is one pitfall - if you reach new shores you simply do not know what to await.
Usually A/B - seen as a shoot out method - falls short as there is no "better" without *any* trade off.
At least I made this experience numerous times - what was a clear step forward often took me something - something I'm becoming aware of possibly weeks or month later - causing me to go back to check and trying to pin point and possibly to figure out a mod of the mod. Those minor things in presentation I lost, I validated different after becoming aware that they can get lost too.
This results in veeeery slow progress I'm making - not exactly an A/B situation I'd say.
As for cables - did the same and arrived at some scenarios that work for me 99% - the rest I leave to others - not enough time and interest to check out...
Michael
Sure you save a looot of money and time if you do not get into this cable thing
But as for A/B :
there is one pitfall - if you reach new shores you simply do not know what to await.
Usually A/B - seen as a shoot out method - falls short as there is no "better" without *any* trade off.
At least I made this experience numerous times - what was a clear step forward often took me something - something I'm becoming aware of possibly weeks or month later - causing me to go back to check and trying to pin point and possibly to figure out a mod of the mod. Those minor things in presentation I lost, I validated different after becoming aware that they can get lost too.
This results in veeeery slow progress I'm making - not exactly an A/B situation I'd say.
As for cables - did the same and arrived at some scenarios that work for me 99% - the rest I leave to others - not enough time and interest to check out...
Michael
The DAC 24 bit integrated in ucd amp.
See extra windings on toroidal Digital 5V an symmetrical power op-amp.
On backside near speaker output SPDIF connector. On front side optical input .
See extra windings on toroidal Digital 5V an symmetrical power op-amp.
On backside near speaker output SPDIF connector. On front side optical input .
Attachments
"Tight" is the word....
Here a really tight build I did once, ICEpower 125ASX2 module in a very small 1U box.
Here a really tight build I did once, ICEpower 125ASX2 module in a very small 1U box.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yeah I thought I would have plenty of room but it became fast full inside the wooden-box.
It has a headphone output speaker A-B-AB- headphone switch, 24bit dac coax optical input.
24 step accurate volume control. All film capacitors. 2X 180W amp with 500VA power supply.
Next step is a Riaa preamplifier with input transformer.
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I gave the 10mF a try too and the SMPS seems not to complain here as well.
Flow, color & image / stage did further benefit - as was already the case with MP + MICA
Michael
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