I thought they might work, well done, might follow your lead in due course.
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While your on a high, any chance of a quick sketch so a beginner can put the power supply together
Do you have a link for the laptop power units or did I miss it somewhere. Which model ucd180 are you using?
David
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I completely agree with sampleaccurate's review on the UcD's sound. They are among the very best, no doubt.
The sound should - according to Hypex at least - get even better by fitting the HxR voltage regulators, which are a quite inexpensive upgrade.
The only thing I dont like with Hypex is the very bright LED on the UcD board. And with the HxR regulators there are even more LED's... so it looks like Las Vegas at night.
The sound should - according to Hypex at least - get even better by fitting the HxR voltage regulators, which are a quite inexpensive upgrade.
The only thing I dont like with Hypex is the very bright LED on the UcD board. And with the HxR regulators there are even more LED's... so it looks like Las Vegas at night.
Great you found a really well working combination !
My first experience with the SMPS at the A/B amps were in the same direction - lots of details (besides well contoured lower notes).
As much as I like it (and the additional effects it creates in stage / image) - at a longer listening now I noticed that it comes with a trade in regarding "elegiac behaviour" that I love so much.
As for the technical side, I suspect that this comes from specific regulation properties of the SMPS - after all its a feedback controlled device - that give a way more complex "answer" to current demands than a simple linear PSU.
That such minor differences play a subtle role in perception of flow and detail I came across when realizing that the inrush limiting thermistors (at the primary of my linear PSU I used) did overlay an additional sonic pattern that was not noticeable at a first glance.
I try to trace those effects down at the moment and have a look if I can tune it in the direction I like (will see if the upcoming Connex SMPS will perform any better from scratch too)
Michael
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mixed
It's good to hear that the newest HG version Hypex with LM opamps is much improved over my older ST version. I've read mixed reviews of the ClassD amps with those that have really done comparitive listening finding them not so great.
It's good to hear that the newest HG version Hypex with LM opamps is much improved over my older ST version. I've read mixed reviews of the ClassD amps with those that have really done comparitive listening finding them not so great.
New MeanWell switch rate
You may like the newer MeanWell S-320 if you can find a good price on the right voltage as they have increased the switch rate to 90KHz.
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Meanwell Power Supply S-320-24. 24V DC OUTPUT. NIB! - eBay (item 180619922188 end time Mar-02-11 20:05:35 PST)
You may like the newer MeanWell S-320 if you can find a good price on the right voltage as they have increased the switch rate to 90KHz.
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Meanwell Power Supply S-320-24. 24V DC OUTPUT. NIB! - eBay (item 180619922188 end time Mar-02-11 20:05:35 PST)
Link to an SMPS for $10 each:
90W 20V 4.5A AC Power Adapter Charger IBM Lenovo Laptop - eBay (item 360339218004 end time Feb-24-11 12:46:16 PST)
and I bought two Meanwell S-350-48 also on ebay which incidentally arrived today. So I now have two additional 48 volt supplies but no modules. Seeing as how I'll be listening to this for years to come I think I'll forego the cheaper modules and stick with what I know I like. I think I'll make a 6 channel version of this amp for surround from my SACD and also digitally processed surround I create by using a convolution reverb algorithm and the impulse response from a large church which is sent to the rear speakers, the left and right are summed, HPFed and sent to the center speaker to fill in the "hole", and the sub 80Hz content goes to the subwoofer. It sounds very convincing if you sit in the right spot.
Still loving this sound BTW. I was fearing that the detail might lead to listening fatigue but no evidence of that yet. I'm also not sure what contribution the SMPS has to the sound. I've never auditioned the Hypex modules with a linear power supply. I always look at this issue first from a technical standpoint. If the power rails are scoped and they aren't fluctuating and they're stable then they can't be having an effect on sonics. If the rails are sagging with the transients then yeah, the sound is probably suffering, but remember also that th PSRR on these is 65dB (I think if I remember correctly). So a linear supply might sound just as good if it was designed properly and had adequate capacitance (including fast poly caps as well as electrolytics).
I don't want to even think about what a large power toroidal transformer would weigh. I'll stick with SMPS.
90W 20V 4.5A AC Power Adapter Charger IBM Lenovo Laptop - eBay (item 360339218004 end time Feb-24-11 12:46:16 PST)
and I bought two Meanwell S-350-48 also on ebay which incidentally arrived today. So I now have two additional 48 volt supplies but no modules. Seeing as how I'll be listening to this for years to come I think I'll forego the cheaper modules and stick with what I know I like. I think I'll make a 6 channel version of this amp for surround from my SACD and also digitally processed surround I create by using a convolution reverb algorithm and the impulse response from a large church which is sent to the rear speakers, the left and right are summed, HPFed and sent to the center speaker to fill in the "hole", and the sub 80Hz content goes to the subwoofer. It sounds very convincing if you sit in the right spot.
Still loving this sound BTW. I was fearing that the detail might lead to listening fatigue but no evidence of that yet. I'm also not sure what contribution the SMPS has to the sound. I've never auditioned the Hypex modules with a linear power supply. I always look at this issue first from a technical standpoint. If the power rails are scoped and they aren't fluctuating and they're stable then they can't be having an effect on sonics. If the rails are sagging with the transients then yeah, the sound is probably suffering, but remember also that th PSRR on these is 65dB (I think if I remember correctly). So a linear supply might sound just as good if it was designed properly and had adequate capacitance (including fast poly caps as well as electrolytics).
I don't want to even think about what a large power toroidal transformer would weigh. I'll stick with SMPS.
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Switching frequency might be an issue, but I'm not really convinced - though have not done any measurements right now.
The Connex (I guess) do operate on non-fixed (floating) switching frequency - I'll see and give it a careful listen.
Anyway - my guesstimate would be that neither the ripple nor the frequency thereof is the main issue but rather overall impedance along the audio BW plus the mentioned regulation properties of the SMPS - so one needs luck too to get a well working combination.
Haven't found that much investigation / experience sharing on that - think most folks are more concerned with ripple which is easy to measure and tweak
Michael
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This can work or not – so – if you have patience you could double check.
"Usually" its better to not leave the amp fully floating and earth it through the source, so you can try to bring a separate ground to each star point of the amp and leave common mode rejection to the differential input you have.
This avoids to feed your source with leakage currents of the amps PSU / SMPS
Depending on how well your source can handle those currents entering at its output grounds, and depending on the cabling as well and also depending on CMRR of your amp it may be better this way or the other way around – so better try to find the optimum.
Fully floating amps tend to sound „airy“ and „free floating“ but less „solid on ground“ - so best you give them another few days of listening as they are now to get fully familiar with its current presentation and then change grounding layout and give it another few days of listening to a wide variety of styles to check for any changes in presentation.
Michael
I shall do so - sounds like a good idea.
The UcD180ST modules I got sound better than my MOSFET reference amp and my tube amps. According to the specs the distortion of the UcD180 is much higher than the UcD400, and the published specs remain the same with the regulators (the higher cost version). Despite the higher distortion (0.1% as opposed to 0.01% with my MOSFET amp) the Hypex modules sound cleaner to my ears than any amp I've ever heard. I can't wait to hear the UcD400. The published distortion specs for this module are a lot lower than the 180.
I think it may have something to do with the output impedance and the high slew rate of these amps (the good sound). The damping factor is high across the audio spectrum so the amp "takes control" of the drivers with minimal overshoot. I'm just guessing, I really don't know. All I know is I've heard a lot of amps and this one sounds better or as good as any on the speakers I own. That could have a lot to do with it too - the speakers. Again I'm guessing, but there's got to be a reason that these things sound so good.
The high frequencies are very well defined and exceptionally "clear". I can hear very minute details. There's a song called "Camera Eye" by the Canadian rock group Rush that starts with some street noises and a typewriter in the background. The typewriter is a very delicate high frequency sound and gets buried on some amps by the midrange synth that is sustaining, but on good amps and especially on these Hypex modules the typewriter jumps out of the speakers. EQ won't help on a lousy amp. There's also the sound of the typewriter bell, extremely faint, but so clear and well defined on this amp. I've A/B compared the amps using this particular song as well as some classical recordings of Mozart and Beethoven with the same conclusions.
It appears to me that the UcD180ST has been around for 5 years or so and has gone through several revisions. I've seen several different photos of slightly different circuit board layouts and different parts. Mine are the latest. It's possible some early versions don't sound as good. Mine sound awesome. I can't wait for the UcD400s.
bell
You are cranking some clean but earsplitting levels to hear that bell at 00:31. I hope you turn it down once the song starts. Groovy song though. They played that entire album on the "Time Machine" tour this summer.
No, believe it or not I hear it at low as well as high levels!! Usually I have to crank it up, but not with these.
BTW, I saw the Time Machine concert and Moving Pictures from the 15th row on the floor - awesome, but way too loud.
Where to buy Hypex modules in USA?
sampleaccurate, sendler - is there someplace to buy Hypex modules here in the US? Doesn't look like diycable has them any more. Or do you just order from one of the European suppliers?
I want to play with the 180 (to keep power supply issues down to a dull roar) but wonder about the tweaks. A better op-amp, capacitors, and regulated 12v boards almost triple the price?!
Maybe Mr. Putzeys will honor us soon with a simple updated next-generation module that sounds even better and doesn't need tweaks... one can always hope! If Class D is really going to replace Class AB in the marketplace it's time for someone other than the Chinese to start following Moore's law for this particular bit of kit.
sampleaccurate, sendler - is there someplace to buy Hypex modules here in the US? Doesn't look like diycable has them any more. Or do you just order from one of the European suppliers?
I want to play with the 180 (to keep power supply issues down to a dull roar) but wonder about the tweaks. A better op-amp, capacitors, and regulated 12v boards almost triple the price?!
Maybe Mr. Putzeys will honor us soon with a simple updated next-generation module that sounds even better and doesn't need tweaks... one can always hope! If Class D is really going to replace Class AB in the marketplace it's time for someone other than the Chinese to start following Moore's law for this particular bit of kit.
Ebay from Hong Kong
Ebay has 180ST for $90 each and $8 shipping from Hong Kong.
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Hypex Universal Class D amplifier module (UCD180ST) - eBay (item 110452469733 end time Feb-23-11 22:30:28 PST)
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And 180HG for $158
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Hypex Universal Class D amplifier module (UCD180HG) - eBay (item 110446088221 end time Feb-07-11 06:38:55 PST)
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The Hypex 180 watt SMPS is pricey at $203.
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Hypex SMPS180 (switching mode power supply 180W) - eBay (item 110450307192 end time Feb-18-11 07:04:11 PST)
sampleaccurate, sendler - is there someplace to buy Hypex modules here in the US? Doesn't look like diycable has them any more. Or do you just order from one of the European suppliers?
I want to play with the 180 (to keep power supply issues down to a dull roar) but wonder about the tweaks. A better op-amp, capacitors, and regulated 12v boards almost triple the price?!
Maybe Mr. Putzeys will honor us soon with a simple updated next-generation module that sounds even better and doesn't need tweaks... one can always hope! If Class D is really going to replace Class AB in the marketplace it's time for someone other than the Chinese to start following Moore's law for this particular bit of kit.
Ebay has 180ST for $90 each and $8 shipping from Hong Kong.
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Hypex Universal Class D amplifier module (UCD180ST) - eBay (item 110452469733 end time Feb-23-11 22:30:28 PST)
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And 180HG for $158
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Hypex Universal Class D amplifier module (UCD180HG) - eBay (item 110446088221 end time Feb-07-11 06:38:55 PST)
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The Hypex 180 watt SMPS is pricey at $203.
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Hypex SMPS180 (switching mode power supply 180W) - eBay (item 110450307192 end time Feb-18-11 07:04:11 PST)
They can be ordered direct from Hypex at their webshop link in the upper right of their homepage. They're less expensive direct - about $78 USD as of today's exchange rate plus about $25 shipping for up to several modules. So for two 180ST it would be 2 x $78 + $25 = $181, plus you know you're getting the latest version. Products are revised constantly with no notification. If a better output transistor at a cheaper price comes along they will use it, and the pictures of the 180ST from years ago and today show changes to the circuit board.
The ST "bottom of the line" version I purchased sound awesome IMHO. It's hard to imagine them sounding better, but I thought that about all the previous amps I owned that surpassed the ones I owned before - technology advances and things change. I'm a damn tube amp guy! If I can be convinced anyone can. I also think that there's a good chance I'll hear no difference between the ST and the HG. It makes sense to market a "high grade" version - some people have the $$$ to spend so why not offer one that does indeed use more expensive components but mark it up more than the basic module? There is a very big difference in cost between the ST and the HG but the published specs are the same. The 180HG model with the regulaotr is $214 USD as opposed to $78 for the ST without the regulator, more than twice the price and almost three times!!! I can't imagine the parts cost increasing that much or the sound being that much better. If it were why wouldn't the published specs be different? Not saying the HG doesn't sound better, just that it's hard to see the one I have sounding better. I don't know what op-amp is being used in the ST but is sure seems to sound good to my ears, and I'm picky about op-amp audio circuits. I've built many an audio preamp using Analog Devices, Burr-Brown, TI, and Precision Monolithics best offerings. If I could send them back I would order an HG to compare, but at $214 compared to $78 I have to stick with the ST for a 6 channel amp.
Incidentally I was reading that the chief engineer at Hypex started out designing and building tube amps when he was a kid with the encouragement of his father. He used to think tube amps sounded better than solid state, until his UcD that is. I have to agree with him, although what else would he say?
The ST "bottom of the line" version I purchased sound awesome IMHO. It's hard to imagine them sounding better, but I thought that about all the previous amps I owned that surpassed the ones I owned before - technology advances and things change. I'm a damn tube amp guy! If I can be convinced anyone can. I also think that there's a good chance I'll hear no difference between the ST and the HG. It makes sense to market a "high grade" version - some people have the $$$ to spend so why not offer one that does indeed use more expensive components but mark it up more than the basic module? There is a very big difference in cost between the ST and the HG but the published specs are the same. The 180HG model with the regulaotr is $214 USD as opposed to $78 for the ST without the regulator, more than twice the price and almost three times!!! I can't imagine the parts cost increasing that much or the sound being that much better. If it were why wouldn't the published specs be different? Not saying the HG doesn't sound better, just that it's hard to see the one I have sounding better. I don't know what op-amp is being used in the ST but is sure seems to sound good to my ears, and I'm picky about op-amp audio circuits. I've built many an audio preamp using Analog Devices, Burr-Brown, TI, and Precision Monolithics best offerings. If I could send them back I would order an HG to compare, but at $214 compared to $78 I have to stick with the ST for a 6 channel amp.
Incidentally I was reading that the chief engineer at Hypex started out designing and building tube amps when he was a kid with the encouragement of his father. He used to think tube amps sounded better than solid state, until his UcD that is. I have to agree with him, although what else would he say?
Yep, 0:31 sec
There's something about that typewriter and the overall mix that give cheap amps trouble. I have a consumer home theater system with a flat response out to 20kHz, but the typewriter is muted and the bell is lost. My MOSFET amp does a decent job, and my 300B SET class A tube amp does a really good job, but this amp sounds cleaner and more transparent than all the others, with over 10 times the power of my 300B!
The hole world can buy direct from Manufacturer Hypex.
https://www.hypexshop.com/
Here the latest pics of my amp with text on front. And las Vegas inside.
https://www.hypexshop.com/
Here the latest pics of my amp with text on front. And las Vegas inside.
Attachments
What model did you use? and how do you rate the product. I'm always lured towards the more expensive, (anything that cost more must be better
) but in this case I ideally need to pull my head in. How did you do the lettering?
David
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