One other question if anyone cares to answer. Ron will hopefully chime in since this idea came from his writing. How do I calculate the diameter of the 50 Hz wave as it leaves the horn. I want to do this as I want to curve the sides of the horn terminus so smoother transmission occurs. The radius I came up with for a 50 Hz wave in 75 degrees Fahrenheit was 135 inches. Lets just say that is correct. Do I then mark a 135 inch radius curve on the front of the terminus? I am confused by this one but that is the logical direction I went. It may be all wrong. THanks!
Tom
Tom
hm said:
Thank you Horst! THat is about what I came up with so I must have looked at least somewhat in the right direction. Now, if I could only solve the High Frequency Decay Problem I can build this horn.
Scott, you said I shouldn't worry about hte HF decay as it sits since this would be attenuated by the bends in the horn? WHat is causing such an odd decay pattern though?
Tom
One other question if anyone cares to answer. Ron will hopefully chime in since this idea came from his writing.
? My Writing???
I usually depend on the TL action at 50 Hz. I roll in the horn action from 70 Hz to 100 Hz (depends on the horn). Martins early sims woke me up to this action. As the TL action starts its first roll off i simply roll in the horn action. Now the TL action will start its ever decreasing BW in harmonics, but the horn action is blended in during the TL actions so the response is a sum of the actions. But if you bring the horn action( flare) out to the lowest TL action , then you have something ,if you can live with the mouth size.(THAT IMHO is a REAL HORN). The A166/A126 comes very close with the rear deflector when wall/floor loaded, corner loaded its a bit too much and can boom.
ron
? My Writing???
I usually depend on the TL action at 50 Hz. I roll in the horn action from 70 Hz to 100 Hz (depends on the horn). Martins early sims woke me up to this action. As the TL action starts its first roll off i simply roll in the horn action. Now the TL action will start its ever decreasing BW in harmonics, but the horn action is blended in during the TL actions so the response is a sum of the actions. But if you bring the horn action( flare) out to the lowest TL action , then you have something ,if you can live with the mouth size.(THAT IMHO is a REAL HORN). The A166/A126 comes very close with the rear deflector when wall/floor loaded, corner loaded its a bit too much and can boom.
ron
ronc said:
Your statement in the forum list that you posted for me in which you talked about curving the mouth (As in the later iterations of the Frugal horn) so as to allow the sound wave to emerge in a less constricted fashion. Something like the image below. I placed a curve in the front that is the same radius as a 50hz soundwave. I am not sure this is even worth trying but I thought it would be interesting. Let me know what you think Ron..
Tom
Attachments
Harderror said:
How should I know? You've yet to post the details of your design, which makes me wonder if you're not just using us to fine tune a for profit venture, so combined with knowing there's lurkers browsing for easy knowledge to this mostly undocumented, somewhat non-intuitive subject, I'm not willing to disclose certain design theory details on-line or even in private unless I'm confident it's strictly DIY.
GM
GM said:
Wow! That is really harsh. I haven't posted the plans yet as they are not complete. I want to get the basic design down before posting the plans. And besides, has anyone else around here including Dave ever posted a plan right off until they have at least the basic idea down. I am still playing with ideas in the sims and on paper. I was quite excited to be publishing my first design but this statement makes me feel like I just don't want to. Regardless, I understand the apprehension. Ask Scott though if I am afraid to share the plan, I sent it to him 3 days ago, however, it has changed quite a bit in the last few.
That asside, I will be posting the plan here in a couple of days. The semester is starting and I am busy with my students stuff at the moment. I just want to get it to a point where I feel good about it.
Tom
Harderror said:
That depends on which side of the fence you're viewing it from. Have your knowledge and/or one or more of your designs turned into for profit ventures without so much as a nod in your direction, then let's see if you still think it's harsh. This is why I only posted sims, not the design data, ergo my concern for your lack of disclosure.
Apples n' oranges, Dave and Co. don't start threads soliciting design info/critique AFAIK, they just do it amongst themselves and present it as they see fit.
Regardless, how can you expect me or anyone else to even consider answering some of your Qs without design details? And by 'design details' I'm referring to St, Sm, 'M' factor, flare frequency, axial length, filter chamber Vb, not PLANS. Why should we have to reverse engineer your plans to maybe try to answer your Qs?
Anyway, sorry to 'rain on your parade', I came to maybe help, but its not working out for either of us, so good luck with your project.
GM
I totally agree with Greg on this.
Desiging a horn is kinda like voting for a US president nowdays, you vote for the one who probably will do the least damage. Its a step by step by step process that is very little more than an overall comprimise.
My advise, build some that really dont perform as they should, learn from mistakes, apply math/physics,learn more,listen to those who have learned from mistakes. There is no easy answer.
ron
Desiging a horn is kinda like voting for a US president nowdays, you vote for the one who probably will do the least damage. Its a step by step by step process that is very little more than an overall comprimise.
My advise, build some that really dont perform as they should, learn from mistakes, apply math/physics,learn more,listen to those who have learned from mistakes. There is no easy answer.
ron
Maybe it is naivete but I assumed this was a place in which I could receive help and guidance from others. It seems I was wrong and this is just place filled with paranoia and clickishness. As seems to always be the case, I will go ahead and do my hobbies alone as there are so many people in the world that will always worry about people stealing their ideas. I agree with you on one front, as an artist I am always worried about people stealing what I do but as an artist I cannot worry as there is no recourse when that happens. You folks can at least call copyright infringement. I have no recourse like this. I will try to contribute to this community as I can, as I learn.
As you suggested, I hope to one day run my own speaker company. That is a dream however. I am a college professor working on my tenure and speaker design is very far away from my field. I will continue to read and to post if in fact I have something to offer but I am sorry that nothing will be offered to me in my endeavors. What really blows my mind is after reading for so long and only contributing when I could, I thought that you, Greg were different. I guess when you pop up out of the blue, the locals tend to shun.
I appreciate you trying to help Greg. I am sorry I didn't provide what you wanted. I am fairly new to all of this and don't know what to provide when asked a generalized question. I would have gladly provided the information you asked for. When I offered what I had, you acted insulted as if I had wronged you. This is what I don't understand.
The DIY community contains all kinds of people from newbies to veterans. I think this has been forgotten here. I am not a newbie but I am not a veteran.
Tom
As you suggested, I hope to one day run my own speaker company. That is a dream however. I am a college professor working on my tenure and speaker design is very far away from my field. I will continue to read and to post if in fact I have something to offer but I am sorry that nothing will be offered to me in my endeavors. What really blows my mind is after reading for so long and only contributing when I could, I thought that you, Greg were different. I guess when you pop up out of the blue, the locals tend to shun.
I appreciate you trying to help Greg. I am sorry I didn't provide what you wanted. I am fairly new to all of this and don't know what to provide when asked a generalized question. I would have gladly provided the information you asked for. When I offered what I had, you acted insulted as if I had wronged you. This is what I don't understand.
The DIY community contains all kinds of people from newbies to veterans. I think this has been forgotten here. I am not a newbie but I am not a veteran.
Tom
After thinking for a while (as always happens), I realized that I may have condemned a whole community without grounds. Many of you have been forthcoming in your help. I, as can be the case when ones feelings are hurt, lashed out in a way that was unfair to others. I apologize for that. All of you have been a great help, both indirectly and directly in my learning of this wonderful hobby of ours. I do understand why Greg is worried but I feel that he presented a very personal and insulting side to me and I was angry as a result. As you probably noticed, I posted my plan. Not that anyone will build an unproven idea but I thought I would put it out there anyway. The beauty of the DIY community is that one can present ideas and others can state what they think of them, even if it is negative. If anyone of you wants to look at my data, you just need ask and I will be happy to comply.
Tom
Tom
Tom - as my wife would say...
take half and hour for a few deep breaths and yoga stretches.....
any of us are capable of turning a simple misunderstanding into a rancorous debate, and there's certainly more than enough enmity already around.
The community of regular diy contributors and posters on these forums have a very wide range of experience and skillsets. Many ( myself included) have little theoretical or technical acumen, but are nevertheless eager to build things that appeals to us, and just as likely to expound on subjects for which we have no background other than our own experience.
No doubt the lack of understanding of "sound" engineering principles often demonstrated in our conversations, or details of execution displayed in posted drawings or photos of some of these projects, could cause the more experienced designers or builders to cringe.
For some of us the "learning curve" is very smooth indeed
- it's only by serendipity that we might come up with a variation or innovation that works; positive results can certainly be achieved absent initial understanding of how. It's easy to understand how that might irritate classically trained engineers and linear thinkers.
take half and hour for a few deep breaths and yoga stretches.....
any of us are capable of turning a simple misunderstanding into a rancorous debate, and there's certainly more than enough enmity already around.
The community of regular diy contributors and posters on these forums have a very wide range of experience and skillsets. Many ( myself included) have little theoretical or technical acumen, but are nevertheless eager to build things that appeals to us, and just as likely to expound on subjects for which we have no background other than our own experience.
No doubt the lack of understanding of "sound" engineering principles often demonstrated in our conversations, or details of execution displayed in posted drawings or photos of some of these projects, could cause the more experienced designers or builders to cringe.
For some of us the "learning curve" is very smooth indeed
- it's only by serendipity that we might come up with a variation or innovation that works; positive results can certainly be achieved absent initial understanding of how. It's easy to understand how that might irritate classically trained engineers and linear thinkers.- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.