Group Order: Saten Aluminum Knobs from India

[PHilgeman]

Thats the plan.

Like I said, we will hopefully know more about the prices soon.

If the prices arent that great and noone buys, so be it.

Have a good one

 

[Peter Daniel]

Peter: Since you have the contacts Could you at least show us say 1 to 3 typical hi end knobs and their prices? I know that it requires you to tlak to your supplier a bit, but otherwise how will we know?

I'm having trouble with my computer. I picked up some warm virus and have to figure out how to get rid of it. At the moment I'm opearting from laptop and it has more lilited functionality in pictures attaching. I will definitely post some picks later, but from what I know so far, it doesn't really matter what design it is, the price will be more or less fixed with larger quantities. It shouldn't be more than $15 and if I won't be making any money on that it might even go down to $12 I don't really want to make mone on knobs, as I need some of them myself for my GC amp.

You can browse the picks of high end gear and make some choices as well. The more suggestions, the better. Here's the knob I like a lot, it fits perfectly between the fingers and is particularly good with the switches (for volume). I fing it the most suitable on my TVC preamp. I also see it with othe requipment (CAT and Lamm for instance).

 

[planet10]

I've got some knobs real similar to that last pic by PD... off an old Onkyo A7. Also the same shape in brown bakelite.

dave

 

[Variac]

The prices might be more or less the same for similar sizes,
but if people truly want 2" I'm sure they would be more

 

[tcpip]

I have been following the Indian threads, and it is really exciting how you guys are discovering supplies in little shops all over which will allow you to create your own Indian equipment. The global economy now pretty much make those of us in the US have access to almost any parts, but we all end up with pretty similar stuff sometimes.

Actually, today, we in India are probably as much a part of the "global economy" as those in the US or Europe. Even though foreign exchange is controlled by our central bank, each citizen can legally buy and spend upto USD 25,000 per year on pretty much anything he chooses (including investing in assets overseas), and it's easy to get international credit cards which work anywhere in the world, but are repaid in rupees. I've ordered stuff from Digikey, Amazon, and Barnes and Noble sitting here. The only problems we in India face are:

• The local demand for things like DIY audio components is too small, hence there are often no retailers in India for many common things, e.g. imported speaker drivers or capacitors, and
• When we order from retailers outside India, the shipping costs are killing. Sometimes, the Customs duty is ad hoc and pretty steep too.

Many of us would have given an arm and a leg to have a Madisound India Pvt Ltd, selling across the counter or by mail order in Indian rupees. Sigh.....

C'est la vie. All in all, we still have fun.

 

[Variac]

Very interesting- I could tell there was a problem , just didn't understand it. I remember from some thread someone discussing how there are many many customs inspectors with many many catalogs of products. Apparently hard to fool them!!

I guess it's up to you to start a little business out of your apartment Cases, knobs, components, drivers, transformers.
It seems like they all exist somewhere in India- It's just a huge scavenger hunt to track them down. It also seems like the big companies don't want to bother with the DIY crowd?

Anyway it's interesting to me....

Mark

 

[corbato]

Many of us would have given an arm and a leg to have a Madisound India Pvt Ltd, selling across the counter or by mail order in Indian rupees. Sigh.....

Things are picking up and hopefully we Indian DIYers will get to see the glory days of '70s really soon. Insha Allah

Back to the Knobs. A manufacturing cost of U$ 2 is very competitive. Just to put things in perspective this simple knob at RS is GBP 5.4 each. I was planning to buy this before I chanced upon this thread.

Round AL raw stock commands a premia at times. Then you add setup, tooling, inventory and post m/c costs. From the high quality finish of Uncle Harry's knobs, it seems he is using SPM's. He is able to produce repeatedly to same spec.

Those Apex Knobs are nice, but not half as good as the ones being discussed in this group buy. I will gladly take at least 5 for my immediate need. And I know the costing pattern in India.

Anodising for all practical purpose is accomplished at one go. A subsequent and/or immediate re-anodising would not add anything unless the preceding stage was done ok. But I have seen that re-anodising does spruce up things, particularly if done after a few days. I think Harry does that too.

Meanwhile. lets us just admire Uncle Harry's knobs again:

 

[Variac]

hopefully we Indian DIYers will get to see the glory days of '70s really soon.

It seems that way- quite exciting. Michael Percy is a major supplier of components in the US. and I think he works out of his house. In India , it seems you need some shop that maybe as as an adjunct to other activities can collect premium parts in one spot. The larger Indian manufacturers would probably be willing to work with someone like this. I hope it happens!

I agree the Apex knob are not intended to be, nor are they, up to the highest standards. They are also surplus and not a continuous supply.

a high quality 1" dia. machined and anodized knob from Digikey is over $5.

I suspect that when the talk dies down and people actually show what they can find, and the prices, and like sized knobs are compared, that "Uncle Harry's Knobs"
(Catchy brand name ) will be quite competitive.

As you have mentioned, shipping is expensive, which is a legitimate reason that his knobs might not be competitive.

 

[NigelB]

first post and a couple of knob suppliers

These two firms have some interesting products. I havn't dealt with them yet but will soon when i get my pcb kits. I'll keep you posted on my results.
http://kilointernational.com/
http://www.okwenclosures.com/catalogue/tuning/tuning.htm

 

[uvodee]

maybe it was my approach

But I had problems ordering from OKW a few weeks ago....
my guess is that for 2 knobs it is bothering them.....
or just had the wrong sales person on the line.....
and the price is very very interesting! and theoretically you can order per piece......


J-P

 

[tcpip]

Re: first post and a couple of knob suppliers

These two firms have some interesting products. I havn't dealt with them yet but will soon when i get my pcb kits. I'll keep you posted on my results.
http://kilointernational.com/
http://www.okwenclosures.com/catalogue/tuning/tuning.htm

I believe members from the US have mentioned Kilo Int'l in this thread. I have zero knowledge about them, but others have commented that they're tired of making do with the Kilo knobs. Whatever that means. More details would be interesting.

 

[tcpip]

Re: first post and a couple of knob suppliers

These two firms have some interesting products. I havn't dealt with them yet but will soon when i get my pcb kits. I'll keep you posted on my results.
http://kilointernational.com/
http://www.okwenclosures.com/catalogue/tuning/tuning.htm

I checked the two sites. The Kilo knobs are not sold by them directly, it seemed. You'll have to find a distributor who stocks what you want. Could you find any? Their "Distributors" Webpage is blank.

And I checked the OKW pages, and found that the only range of knobs which looks good on traditional Al front panels are probably the ones they call "Aluminium cap tuning knobs". These have a plastic body and a thin Al cap. Comparing such construction with a solid Al machined and hard anodised knob is like comparing a Yamaha amp's chassis to what Peter Daniel makes. The finish too didn't seem anything remarkable, and the shapes were pretty straight-laced. And they're charging more than USD 4.00 for a 1.5" knob. If you find this kind of knob value for money, I guess this group buy will be unbelievably inexpensive.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy their knobs... all I'm saying is that their knobs are not in the same league as the ones we're trying to order here, but they're almost as expensive.

 

[Variac]

The OKW are all pretty cheap looking. I guess they are functional, but not what most around here want.

I believe that digikey has knobs that look a lot like the Kilo ones
They might be a distributer. Those are the ones I mentioned in a previous thread that are almost $6 ea. for the 1" an old catalog of mine

 

[tcpip]

The OKW are all pretty cheap looking. I guess they are functional, but not what most around here want.

And guess what? Go through the OKW 19" enclosures page here, and see what prices they charge!

I'm getting my 19" 2U enclosures at something like USD 45-50 each from Dinrack in Bombay, with cutouts done as per my specs. I think Hammond, Par-Metal, Lansing, are all roughly as expensive, or a bit more, than my Indian prices, and are much less expensive than OKW, which seems to charge USD 150 for a 1U, 14" depth enclosure. Boy! Who buys them?

 

[Variac]

People that need "Unique Comfort Handles"

 

[uvodee]

there are things that are unique to the user

Originally posted by tcpip [/i]
I believe members from the US have mentioned Kilo Int'l in this thread. I have zero knowledge about them, but others have commented that they're tired of making do with the Kilo knobs. [/QUOTE]

Imho they are quite nice actually, a bit dull but you can find them easily in many stores.

I checked the two sites. The Kilo knobs are not sold by them directly, it seemed.

1) Kilo knobs is a manufacturer not a retailer.

[/i] And I checked the OKW pages, and found that the only range of knobs which looks good on traditional Al front panels are probably the ones they call "Aluminium cap tuning knobs". These have a plastic body and a thin Al cap. [/QUOTE]

Imho ' les gouts et les couleurs se ne discuttent pas' des femmes inclus' meaning what You like may be completely different to waht some one else likes! Have you ever seen a Quad 303 or 33... designs that are truly timeless to me but my wife thinks they are the ugliest hobby boxes she has ever seen...........
I had a girl friend back in Belgium in the early 90's.... she saw an Alessi 'Design' waterkettle and thought it was a sex toy......... and when I gave her an Alessi toothbrush she said it reminded her of a brush to clean the toilettes and bought a Colgate one herself! what poor taste in my eyes.....

[/i] Comparing such construction with a solid Al machined and hard anodised knob is like comparing a Yamaha amp's chassis to what Peter Daniel makes. The finish too didn't seem anything remarkable, and the shapes were pretty straight-laced. And they're charging more than USD 4.00 for a 1.5" knob. If you find this kind of knob value for money, I guess this group buy will be unbelievably inexpensive. [/QUOTE]

Again I hope you are talking for yourselve.

[/i]I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy their knobs... all I'm saying is that their knobs are not in the same league as the ones we're trying to order here, but they're almost as expensive. [/QUOTE]

Thank you for letting me decide for myself.

The OKW are all pretty cheap looking. I guess they are functional, but not what most around here want.

I believe that digikey has knobs that look a lot like the Kilo ones
They might be a distributer. Those are the ones I mentioned in a previous thread that are almost $6 ea. for the 1" an old catalog of mine

I think that the A1016068 + the A1104003 are a beautiful combination as a knob, truly stylish and probably based on Itallian sources such as Alessi I think I will give it another shot to get these things and also the b5011407 enclosure, I am looking into the pdf drawing as we speak to see if the heatsink might be a problem.

And guess what? Go through the OKW 19" enclosures page here, and see what prices they charge!

for this type of look, it is actually not expensive at all, I have some knowledge of rack material that is much much more expensive. Try to imagine what a bronze shaded mirrored door with brass frame for a 84 U rack unit costs....(installed one myslef in Brussels!) more than a snow mobile!

[/i] I'm getting my 19" 2U enclosures at something like USD 45-50 each from Dinrack in Bombay, with cutouts done as per my specs. I think Hammond, Par-Metal, Lansing, are all roughly as expensive, or a bit more, than my Indian prices, and are much less expensive than OKW, which seems to charge USD 150 for a 1U, 14" depth enclosure. Boy! Who buys them? [/QUOTE]

haha! I buy enclosures (not for rack mounting) from Par-Metals and they seem cheap to me, around $35.
As for the 19" enclosures, the $45 is not cheap at all..... for basic rack use ... that's the common price if you buy from a catalog.

J-P

and according to a friends that does outsourcing for AT&T , they think that India is good quality but has to be cheap!!!!! India made products should be at least 470 pct cheaper than Washington and 500 pct cheaper than East states..... but I just quote him

 

[corbato]

les gouts et les couleurs se ne discuttent pas' des femmes inclus

Exactly. Those who see value in Harry's Knob will go for them. Other will obviously look elsewhere. No need to increase bandwidth/post count by unnecessarily commenting on relative merit/demerits if you are not interested as is clearly evident.

The organiser of this GB will be well advised to quickly arrive at a final cost so that who are interested can reach a conclusion. I'm sure they will be a contented lot once Harry's knobs reach them.

No disrespect meant.

 

[tcpip]

How do these knobs sell with 6mm shaft dias?

http://www.okwenclosures.com/catalogue/tuning/tuning.htm

Just curious... I was looking at this page and from there, I went into a details page showing Al-finished knobs. And I found that all the knobs in this series have only 6mm shaft diameters. See here for the dimensions and details. Does this mean that there are plenty of pots available in North America with 6mm dia shafts?

 

[ashok]

470% less.....?

and according to a friends that does outsourcing for AT&T , they think that India is good quality but has to be cheap!!!!! India made products should be at least 470 pct cheaper than Washington and 500 pct cheaper than East states..... but I just quote him

With due respect to everyone , the person who made such a statement must belong to colonial times.
In India Aluminum is expensive and so is electricity. If one wants to live a decent life and have ones own home and transport , it IS expensive ....may not be as much as the US but it IS expensive.

So if buyers want parts at 470% less , the worker who turned them must live in a hole in the ground and eat once a day and have no electricity amongst many other necessities!

Wake up man ( the ones who make such statements!) . This is 2004 , everyone should get an opportunity to live a decent life and make a decent profit from his business.

Cheers.

 

[Magura]

Re: 470% less.....?

Wake up man ( the ones who make such statements!) . This is 2004

Same to you!!!



Nobody said anything about things being cheaper in india, but fact is that 500% cheaper is not completely off target.

The shipping and customs plus the lower average quality taken into account, you have to get things more or less for free.

To get a 12 USD knob into EU you will be charged minimum 15 % duty and 16 to 25% VAT of the price(including shipping wich you also pay duty of) of that.

So you end up around 20 usd (counting an average of 3USD shipping for each knob) for a knob. For that price you can get any knob youd like made in any machine shop.

Magura