I do not want to spoil the fun
and I do not want to appear stingy...... (maybe I am, I was raised that way)
BUT............
$5 for a knob, anodized made in India?
I know what word I would wanna use for that but I want to keep this forum clean.
I am sure this costs not more than $0.40 each and then one is still making a profit........
Maybe, just maybe, could you renegociate ?????
I have the feeling that making it diy would be cheaper and then a group order does not seem to make a lot of sense is it?
By the way the diameter I would need is 6.3 mm or 1/4 " .
6.5 mm is far tooo much for regular shafts from knobs such as Alpha, Lorin, Alcatell etc... ,
just my 2 cents
J-P
and I do not want to appear stingy...... (maybe I am, I was raised that way)
BUT............
$5 for a knob, anodized made in India?
I know what word I would wanna use for that but I want to keep this forum clean.
I am sure this costs not more than $0.40 each and then one is still making a profit........
Maybe, just maybe, could you renegociate ?????
I have the feeling that making it diy would be cheaper and then a group order does not seem to make a lot of sense is it?
By the way the diameter I would need is 6.3 mm or 1/4 " .
6.5 mm is far tooo much for regular shafts from knobs such as Alpha, Lorin, Alcatell etc... ,
just my 2 cents
J-P
I forgot to specify
Th reason to have a 6.3 mm hole is simple
1" = 25.2 mm approx
1/4" = general shaft size for variable pots , 1/4 of 25.2 = 6.3 mm
I do not suggest the 6.5 mm allthough it seems a small difference, the result is enormous, it is that big of a difference that the pots will be moving from left to right while held into it's place with the set screw. Believe me on this guys, it needs to be much more accurate, which I ma sure they can be.
J-P
PHilgeman said:
Th reason to have a 6.3 mm hole is simple
1" = 25.2 mm approx
1/4" = general shaft size for variable pots , 1/4 of 25.2 = 6.3 mm
I do not suggest the 6.5 mm allthough it seems a small difference, the result is enormous, it is that big of a difference that the pots will be moving from left to right while held into it's place with the set screw. Believe me on this guys, it needs to be much more accurate, which I ma sure they can be.
J-P
If you make them exactly 1/4" the shaft will be too tight to fit in. The 6.5 mm comes from Classe knobs, which were made for years and were used on many Classe made preamps. I measured the hole today and it's exactly 6.5mm. When you tighten the mounting screw, the knob stays perfectly centered. Trust me on that.
With regards to prices, $5 is OK for the small knob, but $12 doesn't seem like any particular deal on a regular 2" knob.
I mentioned it already in another thread, I can arrange for any knob you could desire, anything that is currently featured on any high end equipment, and if enough orders are pulled together (100 seems like a good number), they could be made for $12 or less as well.
Also, 2" seems like way too big. 1.5" is probably the upper diameter range, but probably something around 1.3" is the best all around size that fits most applications. We could have even that type of a knob for that price
With regards to prices, $5 is OK for the small knob, but $12 doesn't seem like any particular deal on a regular 2" knob.
I mentioned it already in another thread, I can arrange for any knob you could desire, anything that is currently featured on any high end equipment, and if enough orders are pulled together (100 seems like a good number), they could be made for $12 or less as well.
Also, 2" seems like way too big. 1.5" is probably the upper diameter range, but probably something around 1.3" is the best all around size that fits most applications. We could have even that type of a knob for that price
Attachments
I've just made a set of 2" solid brass knobs for a friend of mine.
2" (50.8mm) is not terribly big once mounted.
Besides that, the size makes it easier to get the "solid feel" that many people consider nice. A smaller knob like 1.5" would have to be very thick to get heavy enough to give such feel, and in particular when made of aluminium.
Magura
2" (50.8mm) is not terribly big once mounted.
Besides that, the size makes it easier to get the "solid feel" that many people consider nice. A smaller knob like 1.5" would have to be very thick to get heavy enough to give such feel, and in particular when made of aluminium.
Magura
I also need 2" knob (exactly like in a picture), but as I mentioned, it's only good for specific applications and can't be used everywhere. Even the old Pioneer knobs, which seemed pretty large, are only 1.8" in dia.
Most of the knobs that I put on my equipment are 1 - 1.3", never more. Big knobs are out of style these days. Did you ever seen anything big on Pass Labs units? But Threshold preamp knob was close to 2" in dia. I just don't find it that appealing anymore.
Most of the knobs that I put on my equipment are 1 - 1.3", never more. Big knobs are out of style these days. Did you ever seen anything big on Pass Labs units? But Threshold preamp knob was close to 2" in dia.
I just don't find it that appealing anymore.
Good knobs aren't cheap, There has been ongoing discussion about how hard it is to get really nice knobs. It's also not that east t omake then really nice and anodize them. I guess PEter has finally cracked that problem.
I am assuming that the final price will be somewhat lower.
Stepped attenuators just have to be a lot nicer with bigger knobs.
Especially the Shallcos I just got- they are plenty stiff.
Peter- perhaps you could show us a few hot candidates and their
price for about 50
I am assuming that the final price will be somewhat lower.
Stepped attenuators just have to be a lot nicer with bigger knobs.
Especially the Shallcos I just got- they are plenty stiff.
Peter- perhaps you could show us a few hot candidates and their
price for about 50
Ok, I will explain how I came up with the cost since people are doubting it.
The cost from the manufacturer is 2-3 USD. After packaging and shipping that puts them in the US at 4-5 USD.
For the large, the highest expected price from the manufacturer is 8 USD, so that would put them in the US at 10-12 USD due to the higher weight.
I am sorry if you cant spend 8.75 or whatever the final cost plus shipping comes out to, but for that price to your door, there isnt much nicer in the US.
These arent simply cut aluminum, they are double anodized with a very nice satin finish.
If someone wants to organise a GB in other countries, go right ahead.
-Paul Hilgeman
The cost from the manufacturer is 2-3 USD. After packaging and shipping that puts them in the US at 4-5 USD.
For the large, the highest expected price from the manufacturer is 8 USD, so that would put them in the US at 10-12 USD due to the higher weight.
I am sorry if you cant spend 8.75 or whatever the final cost plus shipping comes out to, but for that price to your door, there isnt much nicer in the US.
These arent simply cut aluminum, they are double anodized with a very nice satin finish.
If someone wants to organise a GB in other countries, go right ahead.
-Paul Hilgeman
let me be more clear....
Dear Mr. Hilgeman
Please let me explain my view....
1) imho 2$ or 3 $ knobs are ofcourse possible, however if these knobs would come from India they would be priced 20 or 30 cents, anodized, double anodized or even triple anodized.
2)I agree that per knob the shipping and packaging could be 2 $, if you ship 50 that would substantially go down as you know.
3) I am trying not trying to stop this group buy, I just would like to stay realistic.
4) The difference between of the shelf and custom made for India made products seems too far off inthis case.
By the way, when I was in Bhopal, I drove a BMW that was made from a Toyota Crown true!!!!
just my 2 cents.
Jean-Pierre
PHilgeman said:
Dear Mr. Hilgeman
Please let me explain my view....
1) imho 2$ or 3 $ knobs are ofcourse possible, however if these knobs would come from India they would be priced 20 or 30 cents, anodized, double anodized or even triple anodized.
2)I agree that per knob the shipping and packaging could be 2 $, if you ship 50 that would substantially go down as you know.
3) I am trying not trying to stop this group buy, I just would like to stay realistic.
4) The difference between of the shelf and custom made for India made products seems too far off inthis case.
By the way, when I was in Bhopal, I drove a BMW that was made from a Toyota Crown
true!!!!just my 2 cents.
Jean-Pierre
I think I'll explain the figure behind the USD 2-3 that Paul has mentioned.PHilgeman said:
I've paid a specific amount for these knobs when I picked up a few; that price is mentioned here. Incidentally, this post was done long before the group buy idea was suggested. If anyone thinks they can arrange the same knob at less cost, please let's drop this group buy and shift to the alternate source instead.
Now, the price I paid will not be applicable to this group buy because the ex-stock knobs are not suitable for North America --- you guys need a 6.5mm shaft diameter. A separate lot of perhaps 50 knobs will have to be made to order for you guys. I expect that the manufacturer's price for this custom order will be double of what he charged me for the ex-stock pieces. Hence the USD 2.00 or so estimate for it. Packing in India and shipping costs will be less than USD 1.00 per knob. The shipping costs have been specified in full detail here. Here again, if any of you has a cheaper option, please take responsibility for arranging shipping through it. We'll be only too glad to work with you.
Thus, when the knobs reach Paul, they'll cost him USD 3.00 or so. Then he adds the domestic shipping and re-packaging costs, plus his Paypal charges.
Any remarks about usable anodised knobs being available in India of 25mm diameter for 20 and 30 cents is, to put it mildly, a wilful distortion of facts as I know them. It is perhaps possible if your uncle runs a lathe machine in his spare time and your aunt runs an anodising shop with spare capacity. I may not be very familiar with India, having spent merely 38 years here, but in my limited knowledge, I don't see how any commercial manufacturer will give you a well-finished Al knob for less than Rs.40 in large quantities, or Rs.70-100 if it's made to order in small batches as it's being done in this case.
The large knobs will easily be three times as expensive, because the lot size will probably be tiny (20 knobs?)
I am not interested in hearing opinions about how India/China/Taiwan is so much cheaper and how the current prices of this group buy are too high. If you feel this is the case, please bring up an alternative source of knobs at those oh-so-cheap rates. If anything, I feel that Paul's prices may be on the lower side... he has not factored in Customs Duty at the point of entry to the United States.
tcpip said:
If those quotes are not including customs there are a whole lot of other options available for that price. To get them into europe you can add approximately 25 to 35% according to where you live. For that price you can have them made in europe at pretty much any machine shop. If the required number is getting up around 100 pcs., lots of shops would be interested in making a good offer.
Plus the fact that you wont have to fight the customs to get the ithems into the country...it sure makes things a little easier.
A side remark: As far as im concerned there is no such thing as double anodizing....but thats a different story
Magura
I too, asked my supplier, and they never heard about double anodizing. There is another anodizing process, which makes aluminum surface as hard as steel, but it's never used on audio equipment.
If anyone wants knobs in a hurry, ApexJr has some available at low prices.
http://www.apexjr.com/knobs.htm
If anyone wants knobs in a hurry, ApexJr has some available at low prices.
http://www.apexjr.com/knobs.htm
I just saw those a minute or two ago.
Indeed, cheap, but VERY TALL
I also contacte PartsConnexion about a group buy, but all they give me is a 20% discount.
I contacted the supplier of the knobs in the UK, but they havent gotten back to me.
Maybe I will look at some local metal companies, but I am guessing they wont do it, or will say it is 10 bucks each.
-Paul Hilgeman
Indeed, cheap, but VERY TALL
I also contacte PartsConnexion about a group buy, but all they give me is a 20% discount.
I contacted the supplier of the knobs in the UK, but they havent gotten back to me.
Maybe I will look at some local metal companies, but I am guessing they wont do it, or will say it is 10 bucks each.
-Paul Hilgeman
Yes, I got the Apex jr big knobs YES they are TALLL really tall.
Would work with an extender, but might put way too much stress on a pot. They are so tall you need to cut a big hole in your front panel. I think the 1" are a better choice. They are a dark grey not black. Quite nicely made but not the very highest end. . No complaints, Apexjr is the best!!!
It is always a good idea not to tell others what their country is like-even if you lived there. Let's get the final quote and then just decide. If you follow the India threads, you will see that the DIY guys there pay a lot more than you would think for stuff. If the final price doesn't work, then we move on. It doesn't help for people to go on about how cheap the guy down the street will do it without actually checking and getting a firm price. AND seeing that they really can produce the quality we need. Otherwise it is just talk, talk talk. There is shipping and duty from Europe too I'd imagine...
Peter: Since you have the contacts Could you at least show us say 1 to 3 typical hi end knobs and their prices? I know that it requires you to tlak to your supplier a bit, but otherwise how will we know?
Would work with an extender, but might put way too much stress on a pot. They are so tall you need to cut a big hole in your front panel. I think the 1" are a better choice. They are a dark grey not black. Quite nicely made but not the very highest end. . No complaints, Apexjr is the best!!!
It is always a good idea not to tell others what their country is like-even if you lived there.
Let's get the final quote and then just decide. If you follow the India threads, you will see that the DIY guys there pay a lot more than you would think for stuff. If the final price doesn't work, then we move on. It doesn't help for people to go on about how cheap the guy down the street will do it without actually checking and getting a firm price. AND seeing that they really can produce the quality we need. Otherwise it is just talk, talk talk. There is shipping and duty from Europe too I'd imagine...Peter: Since you have the contacts Could you at least show us say 1 to 3 typical hi end knobs and their prices? I know that it requires you to tlak to your supplier a bit, but otherwise how will we know?
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