chops said:
Something like this?
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/FALL/bd-pipes.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
chops said:
No, it'd need a dedicated bipole design (as the BD pipes Dave shows above are).
'Great' power handling is relative of course...
FE103Es are lovely drivers in many ways, but along with LF, high SPLs are not part of the equation, and due to their polar response, acoustic power at the listening position isn't substantially higher, other than correcting for step-loss if an uncorrected speaker is being used away from room boundaries.
Thanks guys.
I'm just running some ideas through my head because I'm thinking about just putting these 103's in my vehicle like I had originally planned (that was the whole reason for buying them in the first place), and upgrading to a bigger, better FR driver for home use. This is mainly due to the fact that I can't find anything decent or better than the 103's that I want to put in my vehicle without spending about $400, and I don't want to do that for dash speakers.
If you guys wanted to upgrade from the FE103E driver, what would be your logical choice, 4.5", 6", 8"? Also, should I go with another Fostex or should I also consider CCS and or Audio Nirvana? Those AN drivers really interest me.
One thing I want to do is stay completely with a single driver. I do not want to resort to using a helper tweeter. I also want them to be efficient.
Any thoughts.
Again, many thanks in advance!
I'm just running some ideas through my head because I'm thinking about just putting these 103's in my vehicle like I had originally planned (that was the whole reason for buying them in the first place), and upgrading to a bigger, better FR driver for home use. This is mainly due to the fact that I can't find anything decent or better than the 103's that I want to put in my vehicle without spending about $400, and I don't want to do that for dash speakers.
If you guys wanted to upgrade from the FE103E driver, what would be your logical choice, 4.5", 6", 8"? Also, should I go with another Fostex or should I also consider CCS and or Audio Nirvana? Those AN drivers really interest me.
One thing I want to do is stay completely with a single driver. I do not want to resort to using a helper tweeter. I also want them to be efficient.
Any thoughts.
Again, many thanks in advance!
The BD bipole pipe in Dave's above post was originally designed by Bert Doppenburg specifically for a rebadged version of the FE103 driver.
They work surprisingly well, huge soundstage and very good mid-bass - but as with any FR driver this size, separate woofer(s) would be required for ultimate low end extension.
Several years ago we built more than a few pairs, with variants of the drivers from vintage Foster Alnico drivers (as shown in the photos), to RS 40-1197. We never did acquire any of the current production FE103E.
As for the upgrade question, that re-opens a whole series of questions relating to application / previous experience with FR systems / expectations / listening habits / room size / amplifier type and power, etc - there is simply no one-size fits all answer.
Having said that, IMHO the FE127E represents the best balance of overall performance and ease of application* of the affordable range of Fostex full range drivers. No doubt others have their own personal favorites, so don't expect any type of consensus.
* between designs for the FE127E by Dave, Scott, GM et al, many of which have been posted here, and which are also hosted on the Planet-10 or Frugal-Horn/Spawn site, there is probably a design that would work for you ( my own personal favorites for as much for aesthetic reasons as sonics). I'll repeat my now well known opinion - "it's harder to get the FE127E to sound bad than to get other members of the same family to excel"
next up would be the FE167E.
They work surprisingly well, huge soundstage and very good mid-bass - but as with any FR driver this size, separate woofer(s) would be required for ultimate low end extension.
Several years ago we built more than a few pairs, with variants of the drivers from vintage Foster Alnico drivers (as shown in the photos), to RS 40-1197. We never did acquire any of the current production FE103E.
As for the upgrade question, that re-opens a whole series of questions relating to application / previous experience with FR systems / expectations / listening habits / room size / amplifier type and power, etc - there is simply no one-size fits all answer.
Having said that, IMHO the FE127E represents the best balance of overall performance and ease of application* of the affordable range of Fostex full range drivers. No doubt others have their own personal favorites, so don't expect any type of consensus.
* between designs for the FE127E by Dave, Scott, GM et al, many of which have been posted here, and which are also hosted on the Planet-10 or Frugal-Horn/Spawn site, there is probably a design that would work for you ( my own personal favorites for as much for aesthetic reasons as sonics). I'll repeat my now well known opinion - "it's harder to get the FE127E to sound bad than to get other members of the same family to excel"
next up would be the FE167E.
Honestly, I've been eye-balling the FE127E very closely. However, I have also been eye-balling the CSS FR125SR. It has an incredible amount of Xmax but it is also a lot less efficient. 
Then again, like you said, I could always go with the FE167E.
With any of these, I'm pretty sure I would go with some SDX7's on either side to help the low end.
What to do, what to do...
Then again, like you said, I could always go with the FE167E.
With any of these, I'm pretty sure I would go with some SDX7's on either side to help the low end.
What to do, what to do...
Charles - provided you have the required power, the FR125 is a great driver, but if you like the midrange / top end of the FE103E, the FE127E would probably be the way to go.
Around the time we were playing with the FR125 & WR125 bipoles, we also played with a bipole MLTL with the FE127E -it might be nice to revisit that again, but it would likely be along the lines of bi-curious Fonken.
Around the time we were playing with the FR125 & WR125 bipoles, we also played with a bipole MLTL with the FE127E -it might be nice to revisit that again, but it would likely be along the lines of bi-curious Fonken.
chrisb said:
One thing is for sure, I do like the top end of these 103 drivers. They sound just as good as any tweeter I've ever heard. The nice thing about them is that they are very extended, yet very smooth... The way a tweeter should be. The midrange is also good, but it could stand to be a little fuller/warmer, but I'm sure that's due to the lack of BSC and ill-proper enclosure.
So even though the FE167E is rated just as high as the FE103E (22kHz), it doesn't actually extend as high in real life? It would certainly be nice to have a 94dB efficient driver, especially with a little bit more bass extension.
planet10 said:
The amp I will be using is the Sonic T-amp that I've been using, unless I decide to upgrade to the newest version. Either way, you're still looking at about 9 watts per channel.
I could use my AudioSource Amp 100, but I'd rather leave that to use with the "bass modules" when I build them.
chops said:
With enclosure design such as Scott's Vampyr, which he has indicated is intended for near wall installation, or the wide baffle Mileva / Brynn (I have both of the latter 2 ), "step loss" can be less of a problem with drivers the size of the FE103E than over-all X-max limits, which BSC correction will not negate.
If I'm still reading your intentions correctly, there will be stereo bass augmentation for the little drivers - in which case I'd high-pass the little guys between 200-250Hz. Whether passive with high power such as the AudioSource, or actively bi-amped, you should be able to significantly improve the overall system dynamics, power handling and midrange clarity.
yup, the real world is different from published specs - particularly if you're not doing all your listening dead on axis.
Among other things, phase plugs aid the off axis dispersion of the FE167, and depending on the condition of your hearing, the ultimate extension of the top end above 15kHz may be less significant than the smoothness in the 4 octaves starting approx 1500Hz.
chops said:
hmmm, the B200 in an OB is very nice- but even I would probably want to add some air up top (FF85K would be my first choice to try)
as for Jordans / Mark Audio the only experience with the new production Jordans was, to be polite, underwhelming - particularly at the price.
please allow me time to pull my kelvar suit out of the closet before engaging the flame machine
chrisb said:
I'm not completely set on just 4-4.5" drivers, plus since I plan on moving up the single driver latter, I won't be building the Vampyr unfortunately. Then again, I just might for the heck of it later down the road, who knows.
Maybe it's just me, but 200-250Hz seems a bit too high to me. The reason I say this is because I have been listening to my humble little system all day today. Even though I have a sub in the system, the 103's are still playing fullrange. I have been getting this system pretty darn loud and the 103's are taking it all in stride. They stay cool and collective with everything I throw at them.
So far today I have played Duran Duran's latest, Susioux & The Banshees latest, Seal's latest, Dido's latest, then Kenny G's live album from '89, Jimmy Rogers' All-Stars Blues Blues Blues, Stereophile's Rendezvous and Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra's Live in Swing City.
Nothing phases these little guys, either that or I'm not pushing them hard enough to bother them. And if the crossover knob on the subwoofer is anything close to being correct, I should have it crossed over somewhere around 60-70Hz, tweaking just by ear. Everything seems to be blended in just nicely.
That's why I can imagine crossing them over as high as 200-250Hz. Not saying that you're wrong or that I won't try though if I go with the 127's. With my Rane crossover, I can go as high as 3.6kHz if I really wanted to. I'll try anything once... Twice if I like it!
Scottmoose said:
Well if you ignore them, so will I. There's no need to go with inconsistent equipment. I may not be loaded and have the best equipment, but I am picky on the products I can afford, and I demand at least consistency and quality. Actually, I guess consistency and quality go hand in hand. Oh well, you know what I mean! LOL
planet10 said:
100-150Hz is kind of what I was thinking. But I suppose it also depends on the room and location within the room.
Also, as I have stated earlier, I will be moving the 103 drivers into my vehicle once I get the system going in it. That was my original plan to begin with. I have searched high and low for a better substitute for my dash location, and nothing I have found I think will better the FE103E's, not unless I spend upwards of $300-400 on a pair, and I'm not willing to do that. The system is not for competition, it's for me. I think the 103's will be the perfect candidate for the job considering what I have been listening to in the last couple of weeks.
I have been doing a lot of reading today on the forum. I am in the middle of reading the "Audio Nirvana Super Cast 10" (New)" thread. Even before I saw this thread, I had an interest in the AN drivers.
Paying close attention to what Scott has had to say in that thread, I'm possibly thinking of going with larger drivers. One thing I picked up on was that Scott mentioned something about the FE206E having better Xmax and extension both on the low and top end over the AN Super 8. More interesting is that he also says that the FE207E is even better due to the overall flatter, smoother response.
Something else that caught my attention is the AN 10" driver. I like the fact that it can get down into the 30Hz range and can also get up into the 15-17kHz range, on axis of course. And on top of that, it is efficient.
IIRC, Scott or someone said that the AN Super Cast 10 might have better, more open midrange than the Fostex offerings. Not exactly sure if that means that the midrange is actually better or just different. One of my main concerns with this driver would be the top end extension. If this driver delivers the same kind of extension or at least close to the extension of the FE103E on axis, than I could quite possibly be very happy with the AN SC 10.
FWIW, I'm not too concerned about off axis response. If I am off axis, then I am off doing other things rather than listening to music, or just having the music in the background. If that's the case, I'm obviously not doing any critical listening and that aspect doesn't matter to me.
Anyone care to share their thoughts?
Paying close attention to what Scott has had to say in that thread, I'm possibly thinking of going with larger drivers. One thing I picked up on was that Scott mentioned something about the FE206E having better Xmax and extension both on the low and top end over the AN Super 8. More interesting is that he also says that the FE207E is even better due to the overall flatter, smoother response.
Something else that caught my attention is the AN 10" driver. I like the fact that it can get down into the 30Hz range and can also get up into the 15-17kHz range, on axis of course. And on top of that, it is efficient.
IIRC, Scott or someone said that the AN Super Cast 10 might have better, more open midrange than the Fostex offerings. Not exactly sure if that means that the midrange is actually better or just different. One of my main concerns with this driver would be the top end extension. If this driver delivers the same kind of extension or at least close to the extension of the FE103E on axis, than I could quite possibly be very happy with the AN SC 10.
FWIW, I'm not too concerned about off axis response. If I am off axis, then I am off doing other things rather than listening to music, or just having the music in the background. If that's the case, I'm obviously not doing any critical listening and that aspect doesn't matter to me.
Anyone care to share their thoughts?
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