BTW, I was busy a little earlier whipping these up.
After displacement, they come out to roughly 0.36cf. The port is 1.5" x 1" L which makes it an 80Hz tune. They have a little bit more "body" and weight to them now, and it seems that the forward-ish upper midrange has backed off a little as well, probably due to the larger enclosure and actual stuffing instead of old socks. LOL!
Depending on the music, they can put out a fair amount of bass considering. They are definitely the best sounding cardboard box speakers I've ever heard.
Anyway, here's a few pics to laugh at... urr... I mean look at.
Check out that flared port, meticulously researched and designed after B&W's own golf ball dimpled ports!
Here you can see the old Teac CD changer I was talking about earlier along with my bone-stock Sonic T-amp. Sitting in front of the amp is my iPhone 3G feeding the amp with tunes on Pandora via WiFi.
After displacement, they come out to roughly 0.36cf. The port is 1.5" x 1" L which makes it an 80Hz tune. They have a little bit more "body" and weight to them now, and it seems that the forward-ish upper midrange has backed off a little as well, probably due to the larger enclosure and actual stuffing instead of old socks. LOL!
Depending on the music, they can put out a fair amount of bass considering. They are definitely the best sounding cardboard box speakers I've ever heard.
Anyway, here's a few pics to laugh at... urr... I mean look at.
Check out that flared port, meticulously researched and designed after B&W's own golf ball dimpled ports!
Here you can see the old Teac CD changer I was talking about earlier along with my bone-stock Sonic T-amp. Sitting in front of the amp is my iPhone 3G feeding the amp with tunes on Pandora via WiFi.
Any of whom?
Yes, I know the current 103. Nice unit, although I find the smaller drivers preferable for BW limited use or the slightly larger 12x models if it's going to be used below ~100Hz or so. YMMV as always of course & the 103 remains a nice unit for what it is.
Voigt (no 'h' -P.G.A.H. Voigt you know...
) They're rather (cough) idiosyncratic cabinets designed by Nagaoka for certain Fostex drivers. They're an aquired taste -one which, TBH, I never did go wild over, but they have an enthusiastic following, and rightly so. 'Swan' is a generic term for the range of cabinets.
I'm not surprised. They're almost never used in hifi applications as they're the least efficient of all flare profiles.
no, it'll be acting more like an integrated tweeter dome than just a "dust cover"
A phase plug would be stationary, and extend from the magnet pole piece further much further than the central cone . Neither to all phase plugs necessarily have a tapered bullet nose profile.
BTW - cute little break-in boxes, with the flaps folded and only partially taped over, you could be unintentionally achieving an aperiodic effect
just kidding
or maybe not?
Yes, the the newer "e" version goes higher, thats mostly the only difference I can detect although for whatever reason I still prefer the older version.
Yes, the 103 is a much better sounding speaker to me.
Designs by Tetsuo Nagaoka of Japan now deceased as of a few years ago. They represent a dream that Nagaoka san had years ago.
I personally believe they are the best thing since sliced bread.
I am told that many think they are ugly. Those people obviously have no taste
I will send some links for your perusal at a later date.
Hurricance Paloma is making louder sounds outside and the lights are now flickering.
Andrewbee said:
so what was the best thing before sliced bread, and then before that?
I am told that many think they are ugly. Those people obviously have no taste
to each his own - the sound should be the most important thing, and for those lucky enough to have a SO that could live with them- congrats - they look like more of a nightmare than a "dream" to me
Designs by Tetsuo Nagaoka of Japan now deceased as of a few years ago. They represent a dream that Nagaoka san had years ago.
Are you talking an actual dream?
The design is still based on a set of expanding resonators which is neither good or bad, just a different set of actions. The periscope small baffle presents its own problems. I am sure if Nagaoka had access to modern day computers and something of the like of Martins software that the designs may have been different.
ron
Are you talking an actual dream?
The design is still based on a set of expanding resonators which is neither good or bad, just a different set of actions. The periscope small baffle presents its own problems. I am sure if Nagaoka had access to modern day computers and something of the like of Martins software that the designs may have been different.
ron
Scottmoose said:
Any of whom?
Yes, I know the current 103. Nice unit, although I find the smaller drivers preferable for BW limited use or the slightly larger 12x models if it's going to be used below ~100Hz or so. YMMV as always of course & the 103 remains a nice unit for what it is.
Voigt (no 'h' -P.G.A.H. Voigt you know...
They're rather (cough) idiosyncratic cabinets designed by Nagaoka for certain Fostex drivers. They're an aquired taste -one which, TBH, I never did go wild over, but they have an enthusiastic following, and rightly so. 'Swan' is a generic term for the range of cabinets.
I'm not surprised. They're almost never used in hifi applications as they're the least efficient of all flare profiles.
I don't know how I missed this post! Hmm...
Anyway, I was in fact referring to anyone who had heard these particular drivers. I know Dave hasn't tried the new ones out yet for himself, so I didn't know if anyone else had either.
I eventually want to try out both smaller and larger Fostex drivers, as well as possibly some of the Tang Band's and definitely some of the Hemp Audio, Mark Audio and Jordan drivers.
Maybe I'll look into those Nagaoka designs just for the heck of it. If anything, I might learn something from reading about them.
chrisb said:
no, it'll be acting more like an integrated tweeter dome than just a "dust cover"
A phase plug would be stationary, and extend from the magnet pole piece further much further than the central cone . Neither to all phase plugs necessarily have a tapered bullet nose profile.
BTW - cute little break-in boxes, with the flaps folded and only partially taped over, you could be unintentionally achieving an aperiodic effect
just kidding
or maybe not?
I somehow skipped over this post as well. Odd...
Not all phase plugs are stationary. The ones on my AV123 X-Statik's are molded right onto the cones of the 6" drivers.
It's funny you mentioned the "aperiodic effect" of these boxes. I was thinking the same thing when I was closing them up. I actually taped the flaps shut with packing tape though, not just tucking them together.
The way these little suckers are sounding right now, I would really love to hear them in "real" enclosures. Once I put the FE103's in these new boxes, I started the music back up and turned the volume up just a tad bit more again, and they seem to really be opening up more.
Please note, I am not pushing them or abusing them in any way, I just tweak the volume control ever so slightly every 4-5 hours or so and adjust accordingly to the music being played.
REC1 said:
Ron, while I have plenty of personal experience to validate the efficacy of the new methods you describe ( your A126, and several of Scott's Spawn family being prime examples) , I think the certainty of your assumption that Nagaoko, or others would necessarily adopt them for designing or refining their loudspeakers could be misplaced.
Charles:
Well then, let's agree to disagree on our definition of "phase plugs"
(short hand for "at least one of us is wrong" )
May I respectfully suggest that you consider any of numerous enclosure designs other than those recommended by Fostex?
I'm a huge fan of their drivers, but of the several recommended designs I've personally built or heard (including the BLH for the FE103), there are none that haven't been outperformed by numerous DIY designs, most notably those that have been archived at:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-fostex.html
Several to consider would be
the original Buschhorn MKI BLH
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/buschhorn-Mk2.gif
(with slight modifications, this design can also accommodate the FE126E)
The Zigmahornet
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/zigmahornet-plan.gif
or GM's ML-V
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=535015&stamp=1103266527
finally, the BD pipes
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/BD-pipes-drawing-tn.gif
I'm sure I recall seeing post of at least one pair with single driver per box, but having built several pairs with both the now extinct RS 40-1197 and early vintage Foster alnico versions, be assured that best performance is in the bipole configuration
p.s. oh yes, good luck on sourcing any Hemp Acoustic drivers - there are more than a few of us waiting for PP to disprove certain rumours
Well then, let's agree to disagree on our definition of "phase plugs"
(short hand for "at least one of us is wrong"
)May I respectfully suggest that you consider any of numerous enclosure designs other than those recommended by Fostex?
I'm a huge fan of their drivers, but of the several recommended designs I've personally built or heard (including the BLH for the FE103), there are none that haven't been outperformed by numerous DIY designs, most notably those that have been archived at:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-fostex.html
Several to consider would be
the original Buschhorn MKI BLH
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/buschhorn-Mk2.gif
(with slight modifications, this design can also accommodate the FE126E)
The Zigmahornet
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/zigmahornet-plan.gif
or GM's ML-V
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=535015&stamp=1103266527
finally, the BD pipes
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/BD-pipes-drawing-tn.gif
I'm sure I recall seeing post of at least one pair with single driver per box, but having built several pairs with both the now extinct RS 40-1197 and early vintage Foster alnico versions, be assured that best performance is in the bipole configuration
p.s. oh yes, good luck on sourcing any Hemp Acoustic drivers - there are more than a few of us waiting for PP to disprove certain rumours
chrisb said:Charles:
Well then, let's agree to disagree on our definition of "phase plugs"
(short hand for "at least one of us is wrong"
planet10 said:
Hey, whatever. I wasn't saying that anyone was wrong. That's what the company calls them and claims they do just as good a job as a stationary phase plug. If you have a problem with it, take it up with them, not me. Honestly, I could care less, but that's just me. All I care about is that they sound damn good, and they do.
chrisb said:
Thanks for the links and suggestions.
As for using Fostex own designs, I didn't plan to as I have read several times that they aren't the best to go with. I appreciate the links. I can do some studying on them and go from there.
I have to finish my car stereo first before I think about doing anything with these FE103's though. So that buys me some time.
Yeah, that came out sounding a lot worse than I intended it to. Sorry about that.
Back to the FE103's, I want to say that with piano music, these little drivers in these cheap boxes sound amazingly good! Lots of air and space, extremely "real" sounding, especially in the upper register. You can clearly hear the metallic sound of the strings with great detail.
And speaking of strings, listening to acoustic guitar is equally amazing. All of the detail is right there. It sounds like the guitar is really in the room several feet away from me!
All of this from an Apple iPhone 3G, an original all stock Sonic T-amp, fairly decent 16awg twisted Stout speaker cable and a fresh pair of FE103E's in cardboard boxes ported and tuned to 80Hz!!
I can't wait to build some real enclosures for these little beasts! I'm literally in "ahh" with this setup!
Back to the FE103's, I want to say that with piano music, these little drivers in these cheap boxes sound amazingly good! Lots of air and space, extremely "real" sounding, especially in the upper register. You can clearly hear the metallic sound of the strings with great detail.
And speaking of strings, listening to acoustic guitar is equally amazing. All of the detail is right there. It sounds like the guitar is really in the room several feet away from me!
All of this from an Apple iPhone 3G, an original all stock Sonic T-amp, fairly decent 16awg twisted Stout speaker cable and a fresh pair of FE103E's in cardboard boxes ported and tuned to 80Hz!!
I can't wait to build some real enclosures for these little beasts! I'm literally in "ahh" with this setup!
planet10 said:
Nope.
Pulling Pandora off the internet via my wireless network here at home. All the iPhones and iPods are rated perfectly flat 20Hz-20kHz, so they sound pretty darn good, and the files Pandora uses sound much better than mp3's. In fact, they really don't sound any different than CD's from what I can tell.
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