CSS EL70 & CHP-70 Comparison

[wushuliu]

Not a lot can be read into the reorder of the CHBW as between Bob & I we bought over 85% of the original order.

DaveR came up with a very nice series XO with ERT26.

dave

Any chance this will be shared? Any MTMs as well? I've been wanting to build some kind of 2-way with Mark's drivers.

 

[rvsixer]

Ugh .

I think I need to go listen to my EL-70's (from my PC media server remotely controlled via 2 1/2 year old iPhone 3GS's never an issue and still actively supported via free iOS upgrades by Apple).

 

[Squeak]

BS? Really?

Someone drank the Cool-Aid, methinks.

Do you have a valid argument?
I could call you an anti Apple zealot, riding on the wave too, but that wouldn't bring us any further.

 

[chrisb]

That's just BS, plain and simple. I don't think you'll find any company with as satisfied long term costumers as Apple. Just ask Dave, still using Power PC Macs.
Apples way is the complete opposite of the Nokia sensibility of putting out a million different products with slight differences for no other reasons than to cater to whims and encourage quick turnaround.
Apples products are changed at most every year (a long time in this business) and are made to last.
Again, they are not perfect (who are), but they are a helluva lot better than just about anyone else in consumer electronics right now.

BS? Really?

Someone drank the Cool-Aid, methinks.

back OT kids, the sandbox is already pungent enough

BTW & FWIW, if market acceptance is any measure of success, the current record for fastest selling electronic device is in fact the Microsoft Kinect - even the most hardcore MS haters will have to admit this is an amazing piece of technology that has potential to be so much than a game controller, and may well change how humans interface with computers or the applications to which they may be directed as much as anything the Cupertino skunkworks have yet developed / co-opted

 

[Squeak]

back OT kids, the sandbox is already pungent enough

BTW & FWIW, if market acceptance is any measure of success, the current record for fastest selling electronic device is in fact the Microsoft Kinect - even the most hardcore MS haters will have to admit this is an amazing piece of technology that has potential to be so much than a game controller, and may well change how humans interface with computers or the applications to which they may be directed as much as anything the Cupertino skunkworks have yet developed / co-opted

How many are still using it? Is it still selling?
The demo kiosks I've tried were underwhelming at best. Sloppy, lagging detection and shallow games.
Having a short-lived hit with a novelty product happens all the time. Having people come back for more is where the art is.

 

[KyleinCowichan]

I'm not sure which is more fun: Listening back and forth to the speakers that David lent me or reading the responses and OT discussions that popped up as a result of my post about them.

I think the greatest thing about the Mark Audio drivers is seeing the enhancements and evolving model numbers of the speakers. All with improvements and new technology. It really is fun stuff. Thanks Mark!

KM

 

[planet10]

If the sole objective is to sell as many products as possible and have those products thrown out and replaced as soon as possible, then Apple is very successful, indeed.

Tell that to all the people still happily using 6 years or older macs... one of the selling features of a Mac is that its purchase price can be amortized over a longer time span than a PeeCee.

dave

 

[planet10]

Any chance this will be shared? Any MTMs as well? I've been wanting to build some kind of 2-way with Mark's drivers.

I'm not sure what the status of the XO design is. I encouraged DaveR to develop it, he got a bug on, and worked tirelessly to design & build a prototype (fortunately my "junk box"* had all the parts needed) during the time he was up for the VI diyFEST in Aug -- the guy is a series XO guru (i can see him blushing from here ). This performed very well, and went home with Bob. Subsequently Bob has licenced it from DaveR for resale. He also got DaveR to do an MTM, it turned out to be parallel. When i need the MT XO for my customers i have a deal to buy them from Bob.

*(as visitors can attest a junk room might be a more appropriate call)

One of my latest thot experiments is a true Mark Audio 3-way (i can just imagine Mark squirming at the idea of a 3-way ) with the MT as the heart and then with a 1st order parallel XO (at the BS point) to 4 x CHBW for the bass. Could be sll 6 drivers on the front (WWWWTM) or the Ws push-push on the sides Blade-style.

dave

 

[flatfinger]

I think too many choices can be a bad thing to ; It seems that folks in the states don't want to have to adjust any EQ ( shelf or otherwise ) so they want the "P"

The Mark audio product line does take a little effort to scope out ; a little more "marketeer" effort would'nt hurt . ( spell it out clearly for the ADD crowd : like me !!) You know what they say ....


You can please some of the people some of the time , but you can never please all of the people all of the time !!!"

 

[chrisb]

It's always hard to tell when and how far OT a thread will go, but as to a Mark Audio MTM, we had experimented with a quickie prototype using drivers at hand which turned out to be a pair of the EL166 ( AKA Woofer 6) and Fostex FF85K.

Such an array could just as easily be assembled with the EL166 and CHR70, or at a more upscale level the Alpair 10 or 12s for mid-woofers, and A6M.

As with many such DIY -hootenanies, there were so many speaker systems played at the cited event, and adult beverages are sometimes involved - that it get's hard to recall them all - in other words, I can't remember hearing the little BW70/ERT26 2-way, but no doubt others did..

Now a take no prisoners Alpair / CH/ whatever 3way would be very interesting indeed.

Is /will the ERT (or for that matter EL166 woofer ) still (or again) be available?

di

 

[chrisb]

I think too many choices can be a bad thing to ; It seems that folks in the states don't want to have to adjust any EQ ( shelf or otherwise ) so they want the "P"

and I honestly wonder how much of my personal preference is based on sadly (age related) hearing deterioration, compounded by tinitus that sometimes rages at what feels like a well over 50dB SPL noise floor.

The Mark audio product line does take a little effort to scope out ; a little more "marketeer" effort would'nt hurt . ( spell it out clearly for the ADD crowd : like me !!) You know what they say ....

You can please some of the people some of the time , but you can never please all of the people all of the time !!!"

"Marketeering"? - please save us from more of that - ultimately, regardless of what the talking heads have to say, we just need to listen and decide for ourselves. That's the unfortunate thing about the dearth of bricks and mortar stores or lack of abundant local trade shows - it takes work to hear specialty products like Mark's.

 

[tuxedocivic]

That's the unfortunate thing about the dearth of bricks and mortar stores or lack of abundant local trade shows - it takes work to hear specialty products like Mark's.

that's a good point. Someone should start an auditions thread or something. For instance, someone could post "I would like to hear the EL70 and I live in Washington state." I could then post. "I have those and I'm coming to Seattle in 2 weeks" or something. I'd even mail mine to someone if they paid the post. But then, you could almost buy the drivers for the cost of the post.

It would probably work for people living in urban areas, otherwise they'd be outta luck, likely.

 

[Dave R]

I'm not sure what the status of the XO design is. I encouraged DaveR to develop it, he got a bug on, and worked tirelessly to design & build a prototype (fortunately my "junk box"* had all the parts needed) during the time he was up for the VI diyFEST in Aug -- the guy is a series XO guru (i can see him blushing from here ). This performed very well, and went home with Bob. Subsequently Bob has licenced it from DaveR for resale. He also got DaveR to do an MTM, it turned out to be parallel. When i need the MT XO for my customers i have a deal to buy them from Bob.

*(as visitors can attest a junk room might be a more appropriate call)

dave

I worked on crossovers for a couple of different combinations for Bob after VI diyFEST. I think his plan is to get some kits set up for them. Hopefully they'll be offered on the CSS website before long.

Actually, the dual woofer format using the EL70's with the ERT26 was a series crossover design, with the EL70's in series with each other. It was the dual CHBW-70 combination that was in parallel. (The CHBW's are 8 ohm, and the EL70's are 4 ohm). In both cases, the sound came out nice, IMHO.

I'm not so sure about the series guru part (other than the ) The truth is, I don't know much about art, but I know what I like.

And by the way Dave, the "junk room" made me feel at home.

 

[planet10]

And by the way Dave, the "junk room" made me feel at home.

 

[cogitech]

I worked on crossovers for a couple of different combinations for Bob after VI diyFEST. I think his plan is to get some kits set up for them. Hopefully they'll be offered on the CSS website before long.

Actually, the dual woofer format using the EL70's with the ERT26 was a series crossover design, with the EL70's in series with each other. It was the dual CHBW-70 combination that was in parallel. (The CHBW's are 8 ohm, and the EL70's are 4 ohm). In both cases, the sound came out nice, IMHO.

Very interested in hearing more about the availability of this crossover! (Bob?, are you out there? )

 

[type]

Ok, dude, you're trolling. Quit making a mountain out of a molehill.

Thanks!

Off topic: Wushuliu, I just noticed your logo - big thumbs up! Write faster Mr. Donaldson.

 

[Dave R]

Very interested in hearing more about the availability of this crossover! (Bob?, are you out there? )

Apparently, the stock of EL70 is virtually depleted. After contacting Bob at CSS, he agreed to making the crossovers which use the EL70 and ERT26 available.

Here's the series crossover, impedance, and spl for the TM.
The impedance plot shows the woofer on open baffle (no box loading)
SPL measurements below ~500 Hz are affected by floor/room bounce, and are far field only.

(I'll post the TMM version in a following post)

 

[Dave R]

Very interested in hearing more about the availability of this crossover! (Bob?, are you out there? )

Any chance this will be shared? Any MTMs as well? I've been wanting to build some kind of 2-way with Mark's drivers.

(Previous post has details for TM.)

Here is the TMM (or could be arranged as MTM) using (2) EL70's and (1) ERT26
The impedance was measured with all drivers mounted in a .50 ft^3 vented box tuned to around 55 Hz.
Again, measurements made in room, floor/room bounce below 500 Hz or so.

Enjoy!

 

[Bigun]

I have a pair of broken-in EL-70's that have been living in some Fonken-style boxes. They just don't reach their potential in these boxes, with around 6 litres/0.2 ft^3 they are a bit restricted. I've been looking at Scot's DERWENT design as a better approach.

I am curious to see this pairing of EL-70 with an ERT26 as I didn't see this driver needed a tweeter even though the h.f. slopes down after 12kHz. However, I never found any off-axis curves for the EL-70, does anybody have data to share ??

Also, if I build some nice boxes with EL-70 + ERT26 + DaveR's XO and some prize boob sticks a finger through the cone - what am I gonna do !!!! - if the CHP70 is no replacement for an EL-70 would the CHBW suit - and also work without changing the XO or box ??

 

[tuxedocivic]

Here are some off axis: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/208826-el70-frequency-response-measurements.html

Also, Dave may know better, but I doubt the other drivers are suitable replacements.