Pretty cool that you link to a discussion on your signature from within your signature.
Not to the 10mpg part.
What are you trying to say? From my point of view it is hypocritical. The pc you are using cost a tremendous amount of energy to make and soon to recycle. When you brush your teeth the average person uses 7liters of water...the list goes on and on. Shall I bore you?
Point is we all consume more than we need. Why single out motorcars?
I always enjoyed recursivity.Bas Horneman said:
Beside, in this case it was needed too.
If you waste all that water, food and whatever else, wasting a huge amount of energy makes you feel even better, huh? If you have a device that wastes 1kw doesn't it make any difference if you don't add another one that uses 2kw? recurse.
I am also not the kind of person that changes the computers every 3 months, nor do I think that the energy spent for an entire pc is anywhere close to the one spent by a car doing 10mpg.
Sorry, I didn't hear of any class a motorcar so far.
I does not make me feel better. I am merely questioning your motivation.
If we all stopped eating meat, the whole world could have enough to eat. Seems to me an even more pressing problem than wasting finite resources.
I interpret it as follows. There was this girl I had a discussion with... she says it's a disgrace that there are space programs.... while there are such big problems on earth. The next day she gets on a plane to go on holiday. Catch my drift?
It seems to me, please correct me if I'm wrong, that your signature is motivated by anti-Americanism. Now that I don't mind. It is your opinion. I hope you understand that I am not trying to attack you or your way of life. Merely commenting on your signature and questioning it. Isn't that what you wanted?
Bas Horneman said:
All well and good, but we've gotten so efficient with agriculture and animal production that the inefficiencies are relatively small compared with traditional methods. We aren't even beginning to strain current agro capacity and we're farming fewer acres per capita (including grain for animal feed) than ever in history. And fewer acres in aggregate than 50 years ago despite a doubling of world population. The figures can be even more stunning once we get past the sort of superstitious nonsense that has followed the development of modern genetic techniques.
By far not my case.Bas Horneman said:
I don't dream of class A neither of a car that "eats" that much fuel.
Nope. There are people like those everywhere. SUVs are appreciated here as well. Of course, the us is the homeland for plenty such cars, along being the biggest polluter worldwide(at least they are the first affected, as a study has already found). As your fellow countryman jpaul already said, if the americana would not drive their private cars, their own oil would be enough, so no need for wars etc.(at least for now). I think that if they would reduce the number of 10mpg cars, that would help too. And least but not last, this signature is a protest against inefficiency, since this is what 10mpg and 500W+@idle is all about. The inefficiency, ignorance and it's bliss.
Nope again. It is not what I wanted.Merely commenting on your signature and questioning it. Isn't that what you wanted?
There are at least two threads "hijacked" because of my signature. This thread was meant to be the place where people will post about my signature, instead of hijacking another different thread. I already mentioned the idea of creating this thread in such a hijacked thread.
Bas Horneman said:
but what alternative do we have? if we killed off the cows, would we humans have to eat more or less grain to get the same amount of nutrients?
sounds to me the current arrangement of cow eating grain and people eating cows is just the nature's way of specialization.
roibm said:
we aren't going to drive small cars, and we will continue to have wars. and there is nothing you can do about it.
If the average joe the american thinks like you(which I very much doubt), there is no point in not hating the americana(and their arrogance).millwood said:precisely. and you aren't going to change the least bit of it, no matter how hard you try.
If they aren't, you don't count anyway.
So you see, you lose either way.
millwood said:
whatever you say, we will still drive our big cars and fight our wars wherever we like and whenever we like.
and you cannot do a thing about it.
i love the way it is.
This is exactly the way of thinking that feeds my unwanted anti americanism sentiments ( that I try to get rid of nevertheless ). The day I forget them stereotypes always find their way unfortunately.
I just saw a very good documentary about oil shortages in 2010. It seems the politicians and scientists did not take rising China enough in account. Over there 5000 NEW cars are sold *daily* that need petrol together with the vast amount if used cars that go there. So it turns out world stock will be finished in 40 years from now. First problems ( absurd high prices like we pay here for example ) will occur worldwide in 2010. Needless to say that the world will look different then. Just imagine how different when one does not invest enough in hydrogen etc. like the more future minded countries, companies and governments.
We can not do a thing about it, you'll do it yourselves. The Romans never thought their empire would seize to exist too.
BTW Again the ridiculous hype for driving truck-engined MPVs, jeeps and hummers etc. was discussed and apart from their absurdly high petrol consumption they add significantly to the death numbers in accidents because of their size and shape. Governments will try to convince car manufacturers to produce less power consuming cars in the very near future ( at least in Europe ). Calculations did proove that when smaller more environmental-friendly cars would be used by the majority the world oil stock will last significantly longer at much lower prices. So it is our own behaviour ( as individuals, not only the industry ) that has a great influence on the future. Please let's not complain the day we want to fill up our Hummers and the last drop is gone.
JPaul, don't expect millwood to realize or care about any of the upcoming problems. he lives just on the instant.
As about the oil problems, most of the people don't realize that an oil related problem is not only when the oil is not available anymore or very scarce.
Considering our economy which is based 100% on oil(without oil there will be no economy, nothing, nada), A demand ~20% higher than the suppy would be disastrous. All prices would explode, the way of life as we know it will no longer be. And millwood will not be able to do anything about it. Beside, guess who will be shaken the most.
Anyway, the time to seriously research is very limited, and the big oil players make a lot of lobby against, for obvious reasons. I wonder how much could have this 150bil+(spent for nothing) helped such a research.
As about the oil problems, most of the people don't realize that an oil related problem is not only when the oil is not available anymore or very scarce.
Considering our economy which is based 100% on oil(without oil there will be no economy, nothing, nada), A demand ~20% higher than the suppy would be disastrous. All prices would explode, the way of life as we know it will no longer be. And millwood will not be able to do anything about it. Beside, guess who will be shaken the most.
Anyway, the time to seriously research is very limited, and the big oil players make a lot of lobby against, for obvious reasons. I wonder how much could have this 150bil+(spent for nothing) helped such a research.
Hi Roibm, in that same program some very nice solutions by the largest oil or energy companies,as they recently want to be called, were demonstrated. Particularly Shell has invested a lot in compact hydrogen fuel cells. The lobby against investments in other sources of energy is over as they must change their source of income due to unexpected earlier change of scenario. General Motors, of course not an energy company, is the second large player on the hydrogen fuel call market/research ladder.
There was a system shown that was about using hydrogen cells not only to power cars but houses as well. Back to decentralized power generation it seems. Pro and contra people were given time to do their talk but after all it had a high solution factor for the big problems we will face. I hadn't realized before that for creating hydrogen always other energy is needed unlike the reasonably efficient production of oil and derivatives. Some countries proposed nuclear power to create hydrogen but luckily that was not the concensus
Also some non 100% oil dependant countries were given as example how solutions can be found and at what prices.
There was a system shown that was about using hydrogen cells not only to power cars but houses as well. Back to decentralized power generation it seems. Pro and contra people were given time to do their talk but after all it had a high solution factor for the big problems we will face. I hadn't realized before that for creating hydrogen always other energy is needed unlike the reasonably efficient production of oil and derivatives. Some countries proposed nuclear power to create hydrogen but luckily that was not the concensus
Also some non 100% oil dependant countries were given as example how solutions can be found and at what prices.
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