jean-paul said:
that was the promise of Plug (I am one of the earliest pre-money investors in Plug). It didn't happen for a lot of reasons, the least of which is economics and safety concerns.
when it comes to cost and reliability, the good old low-tech centrlized power generation + grid is very hard to compete.
Ballard, a pioneer in the industry, has tried some other ideas but mostly went nowhere. One of my investments is doing some pretty unique stuff with regards to vehicle applications and ultra-long life compact batteries for the military (try to find out how much batteries a special ops carries and you will see why it is so important).
the difficulty there is the li-based batteries have some of the highest power density. and fuel cells (hydrogen-based at least) don't work too well in extreme temperatures.
But I think eventually we will get there, one way or another. But I think the solution will not be hydrogen-based.
millwood said:Originally posted by roibm
Hey millwood, TAFL, go walk the bear, or whatever else, your posts are redundant.
I already know you can't do better
and you cannot do a thing about it,
Just love the moment.
LOL
I am not trying to change you. You are pretty cool as you are... You should know I missed you when you were sin-binned. You are the nice little pet of this forum.
Please don't change, take care of yourself
Great signature. I especially like the second part. It shows nicely just how IM distorted the view of a few of the americans is on the world.
Did you notice how I put in an audio related term in an offtopic post. Now, isn't that clever of me
Now, on a more serious note. It seems that the more non-americans bash these moronic views, the more americans stand up for their country in support of them... like there is anything to be proud of in starting a war over natural resources (screw the evil dictator argument). This way the morons get an even larger say in america's policies. Fine paradox we are in...
Did you notice how I put in an audio related term in an offtopic post. Now, isn't that clever of me
Now, on a more serious note. It seems that the more non-americans bash these moronic views, the more americans stand up for their country in support of them... like there is anything to be proud of in starting a war over natural resources (screw the evil dictator argument). This way the morons get an even larger say in america's policies. Fine paradox we are in...
You keep repeating yourself, Millwood.
Please come up with a more intelligent view on things instead of giving us more of the classical redneck style. We know that and repeating adds nothing to the discussion.
Mmm, please be careful with the "nothing can stop us" slogan. The world has seen enough proof of the opposite.
Please come up with a more intelligent view on things instead of giving us more of the classical redneck style. We know that and repeating adds nothing to the discussion.
Mmm, please be careful with the "nothing can stop us" slogan. The world has seen enough proof of the opposite.
About big suvs causing more traffic deaths... The death won't be me or my family because I'm not so stupid as to put myself at such a size DISatvantage.
Feul cells....What a load of crap. Do you people think you can find free H2 lying about somewhere. If the envirosissies weren't afraid of nuclear energy, they would be a great source of portable power. The problem is H2 has to be generated with mass quantities of fossil fuel.
Arab cowards who throw bombs then hide under their mothers robe may slow us down a little and kill a few soldiers, but they won't make us elect socialist presidents (Spain) or cower to their demands and turn and run. With propper provocation, we'll kick anyones a$$.... Learn to love it
Feul cells....What a load of crap. Do you people think you can find free H2 lying about somewhere. If the envirosissies weren't afraid of nuclear energy, they would be a great source of portable power. The problem is H2 has to be generated with mass quantities of fossil fuel.
Arab cowards who throw bombs then hide under their mothers robe may slow us down a little and kill a few soldiers, but they won't make us elect socialist presidents (Spain) or cower to their demands and turn and run. With propper provocation, we'll kick anyones a$$.... Learn to love it
This thread started on an antagonistic note, and it's continuing. Members must show respect for other members beliefs and ways, that may differ in significant ways from their own. Please lower the temperature and avoid personal insults or the thread will have to go. Brian Donaldson said:
fuel cells are for real, like it or not. However, hydrogen-based fuel cells (that include most of the fuel cells today) are unlikely to be the long-term solution. However, a lot of those so-called hydrogen-fuel cells actually burn some form of gasoline (typically with methelon fix). so they aren't that different from gas-based internal combustion engines, and the disposal of those fuel cells is deadly.
the smart money has moved away from H-fuel cells, and Europe is seriously lacking in this department.
California
I live in southern California, the land of manipulated energy prices. It feels strange to drive a car that can carry 6 adults yet gets 28 MPG when surrounded by SUVs that carry 4 and get 1/2 the mileage. And since a car takes as much energy to manufacture as it takes to run it for at least 10 years, I'm doing my bit by driving a car that is now 17 years old (and still passes California emission standards quite nicely).
Even my weekend car, a 15 year old LeBaron convertible with a 3.0L high performance V6 gets 25mpg the way I drive it.
Mind you part of my reluctance to buy a new car is that none of the new cars are as roomy that get as good a gas mileage. The roomy cars get sucky gas mileage. The high mileage cars are so timy. So I keep my old Dodge Aries and LeBaron and I chuckle at the gas pumps because while I put $20 in my tanks, the guy with the H2 or Excursion at the next pump puts in $100. Yet those people don't seem to see themselves at the cause of the problem.
I live in southern California, the land of manipulated energy prices. It feels strange to drive a car that can carry 6 adults yet gets 28 MPG when surrounded by SUVs that carry 4 and get 1/2 the mileage. And since a car takes as much energy to manufacture as it takes to run it for at least 10 years, I'm doing my bit by driving a car that is now 17 years old (and still passes California emission standards quite nicely).
Even my weekend car, a 15 year old LeBaron convertible with a 3.0L high performance V6 gets 25mpg the way I drive it.
Mind you part of my reluctance to buy a new car is that none of the new cars are as roomy that get as good a gas mileage. The roomy cars get sucky gas mileage. The high mileage cars are so timy. So I keep my old Dodge Aries and LeBaron and I chuckle at the gas pumps because while I put $20 in my tanks, the guy with the H2 or Excursion at the next pump puts in $100. Yet those people don't seem to see themselves at the cause of the problem.
Re: California
I don't know how much fuel economy has improved over the last two decades for example. My BMW gets about 15-20mpg mixed intown and highway driving. I believe it is rated in the mid to high 20s by EPA.
so rated mileages may not be that indicative.
Foundamentally, you cannot blame people who drive those fuel guzzlers. the fault is with us: we set the fuel prices such that it is benefitial for them to run those fuel guzzlers.
I am very supportive of high fuel taxes, like those levied in other parts of the world, in order to curb the proliferation of un-neccessarily large vehicles (SUVs for on-road applications for example).
dmfraser said:
I don't know how much fuel economy has improved over the last two decades for example. My BMW gets about 15-20mpg mixed intown and highway driving. I believe it is rated in the mid to high 20s by EPA.
so rated mileages may not be that indicative.
Foundamentally, you cannot blame people who drive those fuel guzzlers. the fault is with us: we set the fuel prices such that it is benefitial for them to run those fuel guzzlers.
I am very supportive of high fuel taxes, like those levied in other parts of the world, in order to curb the proliferation of un-neccessarily large vehicles (SUVs for on-road applications for example).
Re: Re: California
Hi Millwood, problem is that when prices are absurdly high ( like here ) car driving will be an "elite" only affair in the end. So the rich that buy such SUV vehicles won't care less and still buy and drive SUVs. I guess that stopping production by law is absurd and very effective at the same time. It does not seem to match with the word democracy though
The positive thing of high fuel taxes is that normal people will be more conscious when starting their car for short drives as driving will hit their wallet.
millwood said:
Hi Millwood, problem is that when prices are absurdly high ( like here ) car driving will be an "elite" only affair in the end. So the rich that buy such SUV vehicles won't care less and still buy and drive SUVs. I guess that stopping production by law is absurd and very effective at the same time. It does not seem to match with the word democracy though
The positive thing of high fuel taxes is that normal people will be more conscious when starting their car for short drives as driving will hit their wallet.
California
Here in the US, I feel there may be a plot to transfer money to the friends of Dick Cheney.
In the last election if Gore won, he was going to impose a 50 cent per gallon tax to discourage consumption. The money would have gone to the US government and in spite of the downturn, the budget would have stayed balanced because of this.
Bush and his people stole the election and instead, cut taxes to rich (Thanks for the $400 refund but I'd rather have decent schools). This drove the US government into deficit. As a result, the US dollar declined in value, raising oil prices. Hence, gasoline rose by 50 cents a gallon. The difference is that the 50 cents per gallon is going to the oil industry instead of the government.
The result is that the huge deficit is going to reduce government services for like forever.
As for the people who drive these gas guzzlers, you know gas is too cheap when even the production workers here, who get little over minimum wage, are driving Ford Excursions that get 13 mpg. Yes, now they are complaining about the gas prices as well they should. They could have bought something smaller but the market has been sending the wrong signals to these people.
The rich, you are right, don't care. Its such a small part of their income. But when even the poor, and there are a lot more poor people, start driving them too, whether bought new or used, then that means gas is too cheap.
Here in the US, I feel there may be a plot to transfer money to the friends of Dick Cheney.
In the last election if Gore won, he was going to impose a 50 cent per gallon tax to discourage consumption. The money would have gone to the US government and in spite of the downturn, the budget would have stayed balanced because of this.
Bush and his people stole the election and instead, cut taxes to rich (Thanks for the $400 refund but I'd rather have decent schools). This drove the US government into deficit. As a result, the US dollar declined in value, raising oil prices. Hence, gasoline rose by 50 cents a gallon. The difference is that the 50 cents per gallon is going to the oil industry instead of the government.
The result is that the huge deficit is going to reduce government services for like forever.
As for the people who drive these gas guzzlers, you know gas is too cheap when even the production workers here, who get little over minimum wage, are driving Ford Excursions that get 13 mpg. Yes, now they are complaining about the gas prices as well they should. They could have bought something smaller but the market has been sending the wrong signals to these people.
The rich, you are right, don't care. Its such a small part of their income. But when even the poor, and there are a lot more poor people, start driving them too, whether bought new or used, then that means gas is too cheap.
Re: California
there really isn't much correlation between what politicians promised and what they would do.
Had Gore imposed that gasoline tax, it would increase transportation costs and pushed the economy deeper into the receission.
I am not rich but I am happy to have my taxes back, and I am confident I can spend my money more efficiently than the goverment does.
if were not for the bush tax cuts, we would still be in the recession: the consumer spending is what brought us out of the last recession. and Consumer spending sure wouldn't have gone up if people had less money to spend.
so have we consumed less gasoline because of the higher taxes?
wouldn't that be better?
I would advise you take some economics 101 classes and understand fiscal policies a little bit better. It is a little bit more complicated than you had depicted here.
I would like to see how many minimum wage types are driving the excursion and how big of an impact they have on gas consumption / prices.
very little I would guess.
dmfraser said:
there really isn't much correlation between what politicians promised and what they would do.
Had Gore imposed that gasoline tax, it would increase transportation costs and pushed the economy deeper into the receission.
dmfraser said:
I am not rich but I am happy to have my taxes back, and I am confident I can spend my money more efficiently than the goverment does.
dmfraser said:
if were not for the bush tax cuts, we would still be in the recession: the consumer spending is what brought us out of the last recession. and Consumer spending sure wouldn't have gone up if people had less money to spend.
dmfraser said:
so have we consumed less gasoline because of the higher taxes?
dmfraser said:
wouldn't that be better?
dmfraser said:
I would advise you take some economics 101 classes and understand fiscal policies a little bit better. It is a little bit more complicated than you had depicted here.
dmfraser said:
I would like to see how many minimum wage types are driving the excursion and how big of an impact they have on gas consumption / prices.
very little I would guess.
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