the hights of ciare
...the heights of ciare are really impressive.
I meassured about 18khz at full level.
But meassured hights and heared hights are something diferent.
Because a relative heavy membrane has to do the hights, they do not sound as lightweighted and airy as tweeters.
nevertheless you need to search long times to find a speaker that sound as impulsive, dynamic live as ciare 250
Ralf
...the heights of ciare are really impressive.
I meassured about 18khz at full level.
But meassured hights and heared hights are something diferent.
Because a relative heavy membrane has to do the hights, they do not sound as lightweighted and airy as tweeters.
nevertheless you need to search long times to find a speaker that sound as impulsive, dynamic live as ciare 250
Ralf
Re: the hights of ciare
Hey, I don't have only one system.
Right.
Most fullranges, even the smaller ones which have a more extended treble, sound like a 1$ paper cone tweeter on the highs.
There's some "air" and detail that's absent.
It's always good to use a tweeter crossed very high, and for that job a cheap dome tweeter does it quite nicely most of the times.
It's worth a try with the Ciare.
Nuuk said:Ha ha Carlos, are we getting you interested in some easy-to-drive speakers?
Hey, I don't have only one system.
ralf said:
Right.
Most fullranges, even the smaller ones which have a more extended treble, sound like a 1$ paper cone tweeter on the highs.
There's some "air" and detail that's absent.
It's always good to use a tweeter crossed very high, and for that job a cheap dome tweeter does it quite nicely most of the times.
It's worth a try with the Ciare.
It`s not reversible. I used very cheap fullrangers for testing and I was pleased with the sound. But when you treat the cones as well the treble becomes more prominent. You can use water on the Ciares, even slightly better than glycerol, and reversible. Oil is not good, sounds oily. And vaseline is ********.
Nuuk said:I just tried it with the tweeters connected via 0.68 and 0.47 uF caps in parallel.
Yes, it does add some more 'air' as you say Carlos but it also slightly blurs the imaging (and gives some sibilants to female vocals).
I'll do some more listening and try different crossover points.
1.15uf?
That may be too much, use 1uf or lower, depending on the response of the Ciare.
You may end up with less than 1uf, like 680nf.
Pay attention if you need to attenuate the tweeter too, instead of crossing higher.
A 47R resistor or lower across the tweeter terminals (after the cap) does the job.
Nuuk said:I have moved the crossover point for the tweeters higher (1.68 uF cap) and the sibilants have gone. Much better. I think that I may prefer the Ciares with a tweeter but I need to listen to a lot more music first!
Higher?
1.68uf?
That's a normal value for a two-way speaker, you are crossing too low.
Anyway, of course the Ciare benefits from a (super)tweeter, as most fullranges do.
Look around, you'll end up with a 3-way speaker.
Nuuk said:1.68 uF with an 8 ohm tweeter gives 11.8 khz doesn't it?
That's the -3db point.
At half the frequency you have the -6db point.
For a 1st order crossover with an 8-ohm tweeter the values to use are between 1.5 and 2uf.
2uf is the maximum top, and it will only work with very few tweeters, those that have an FS at much lower than 1khz and are linear down to less than 1khz.
The roll-off is slow and you need to protect the tweeter from the low midband.
Btw my Epos ES11 speakers have a 1.5uf film cap on the tweeter, and it's just spot-on.
For a super-tweeter to integrate with a fullrange you are looking at values of 1uf or lower.
Doesn't mean that the Ciare doesn't sound better with a normal tweeter/crossover.
Maybe they are much less sensitive in the treble.
My diy speakers I use on my bench have Visaton FR10 / 8, with small (14mm) dome tweeters, crossed with a 1uf cap and attenuated with a 47R resistor across the tweeter.
Sounds detailed, airy, natural.
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