Ciare 250

[joensd]

Mounting tweeter in front....

I´ve seen a similar development at the german VISATON forum.

http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread.php?threadid=7303&highlight=why

Some old Philips speakers
Scary experiments

posted by someone else, shows a picture of a commercial design using a Ciare250 in an aperiodic enclosure.

That´s a pic from a DIY event I went to. Unfortunately I only listened to that one for literally a few seconds so no comments.
Plans are still not available AFAIK.

I wonder why they didn't centre the tweeter over the woofer?

The forum-design (first link) was measured at Visaton and didn´t show any signs of reflections through the tweeter.
Maybe those reflections are worse when the tweeter sits in the middle? Not that big a point-source anymore then, isn´t it?

greets

 

[carlosfm]

Yes, but with 10 and 12 inch drivers the centres can never be close (unless you mount the tweeter in front of the woofer)!

That may be the solution.
Like a coax.
But the tweeter should be small (with a neodymium magnet), otherwise it will cover a big part of the FR speaker.

 

[planet10]

That may be the solution.
Like a coax.
But the tweeter should be small (with a neodymium magnet), otherwise it will cover a big part of the FR speaker.

The small 50 mm alnico thimble tweeters work well too:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

<http://www.timn8er.com/coral_open_baffle_project.htm>

dave

 

[ralf]

why

...as we see the weakness of ciare and other fullrage speakers - why not using a coax instaead?

Ralf

 

[Nuuk]

...as we see the weakness of ciare and other fullrage speakers - why not using a coax instaead?

A good question Ralf if we can find some coax at the same price as the Ciares!

 

[el`Ol]

There are lots of vintage coaxials, and there are some very nice Corals at Ebay now.

 

[Coolin]

Coax

Have a look here ! pretty cheap

http://www.shanghaiproaudio.com/coaxdrivers.htm

I havent found much about them but they seem to be fairly good.

Problems are need for sub or horn load it because of low qts
Also shipping is not cheap.

Coolin

 

[el`Ol]

I asked the company. The Shanghaipros are conventional coaxials with 2kHz crossover, far away from being fullrange. The only fullrange/supertweeter coaxial I know produced today is the PHY, probably the top of the tops, but also in price.

 

[Nuuk]

So probably the most practical solution is to add a tweeter in front of the main driver. What particular tweeters are suitable for such a job?

 

[carlosfm]

So probably the most practical solution is to add a tweeter in front of the main driver. What particular tweeters are suitable for such a job?

The Ciare is a 4-ohm driver.
You ideally need a small tweeter, with a small magnet (typically neodymium), AND a tweeter that's sensitive enough to be used with the Ciare.
This leaves you in the car audio field, or something else not very usual.

 

[Nuuk]

The Ciare is a 4-ohm driver.
You ideally need a small tweeter, with a small magnet (typically neodymium), AND a tweeter that's sensitive enough to be used with the Ciare.
This leaves you in the car audio field, or something else not very usual.

Thanks Carlos. Actually, although this is the Ciare 250 thread, I was thinking more about my Goodmans 201's (8 ohm)!

 

[carlosfm]

Thanks Carlos. Actually, although this is the Ciare 250 thread, I was thinking more about my Goodmans 201's (8 ohm)!

Aaahhhh...
Well, on the cheap you can try this one:
http://www.visaton.com/english/artikel/art_383_1_8.html

Above ~10Khz (where it's needed) it's quite sensitive.
At around 10€ each, you don't risk much to try it.

 

[Nuuk]

Above ~10Khz (where it's needed) it's quite sensitive.
At around 10€ each, you don't risk much to try it.

10 euros (where's my euro key? )! Just what I like to hear!

I hope that square face-plate comes off though!

 

[carlosfm]

I hope that square face-plate comes off though!

Oh master wood artist, just make a little enclosure with a spherical back.

 

[el`Ol]

Ciare have nice horn tweeters in their professional sector. when you cut away the front plate they are really compact. Beyma have also nice horn tweeters in their car sector, but 4Ohm

 

[mor2bz]

ciare 250

i just made a copy of norbert's design (thanks norbert)

i used appleply (not cheap)

i also used ropecalk on the back frame of the driver, dammed the cone(s), and added 4-5" wings stapled onto the side of the panel extending the full lengthof the bottm (mine are hung from the ceiling) and about 3/4 up both sides. i also used a double thick piece of wool stapled over the back of the drivers for more bass. i have about 12 hours on them and the bass is increasing. i have used 3 amps incl. a sonic impact t-amp, a 6v6 PP, and a triode-strapped el34 anthem amp one. i also used 1 extra magnet on the back of ea. driver. a sub augments the bass below 75 hz.

they sound less hollow and papery then the fostex speakers i have made.
the treble is better than either fostex or moth cicada drivers i have used.

i wish for more bass, but maybe they will improve ( i am not a basshead).
the mids are very good. not bad for $55 a driver. i have an 8 ohm version.

 

[el`Ol]

I also considered dampening the basket by applying some substance on it, but I didn`t have a good idea for the material. Can you tell us more about ropecalk, what is it made of?

 

[mor2bz]

the ropecalk is a window calking which stays soft and pliable. it is very easy to apply. i got enough for about 4 drivers from ace hardware for about $5.
i don't know what it is made of but i believe it is fairly harmless and i handled it with my bare hands. i also use it underneath speakers and amps like blue tac. i bet it is just as good for a fraction of the cost. i also used it to cover up the holes for mounting as the screws did not completely cover them.

 

[KevinTams]

NUUK
what do you think of your Ciares now? Do you still prefer the Goodmans or are the Ciares still improving?

Kev

 

[Nuuk]

what do you think of your Ciares now? Do you still prefer the Goodmans or are the Ciares still improving?

Well, the Ciares are growing on me enough for me not to have put the Goodmans back in yet but I still won't commit myself to which are the better drivers.

My view so far is that the Ciares are like a BMW/Mercedes, ie work very well and do everything right but lack a bit in personality. The Goodmans are more like a Jaguar, not so reliable, a little quirky but lots of fun. This says more about how I preceive cars than speakers though and I hope that I haven't offended anybody!

I have been slightly side-tracked by the arrival of a T-AMP that has kept me listening more to my second system than the Ciares. When I have modded the T-AMP input section and decided on the best PSU, I will try the T-AMP on the Ciares. Watch this space!