Nines,
I am apparently too blind to help you, and you are destined to always be blind as well. There's no chance in the world that you can succeed and you should give up now.
Is that what we should take from this?
I'm going to sim up an x-over based on the drivers chosen, I am going to ask that the more experienced members provide some critique and suggestions to improve on it.
If I have made an incorrect assumption, or a poor driver recommendation, then we can all learn something here, but only if the experienced members here point out what is wrong with what I have said or suggested. As far as I know, nothing has been purchased yet so there is still room for improvement.
These speakers are going to have flaws, also, they are going to work. If you have something constructive to add, please, add it. If you can teach us something, please, teach us. If you wouldn't be satisfied until it's 20-20K +/-1dB then this isn't the build for you.
I have attached the zma and frd files for the drivers selected for anyone who wants to be a positive influence
I am apparently too blind to help you, and you are destined to always be blind as well. There's no chance in the world that you can succeed and you should give up now.
Is that what we should take from this?
I'm going to sim up an x-over based on the drivers chosen, I am going to ask that the more experienced members provide some critique and suggestions to improve on it.
If I have made an incorrect assumption, or a poor driver recommendation, then we can all learn something here, but only if the experienced members here point out what is wrong with what I have said or suggested. As far as I know, nothing has been purchased yet so there is still room for improvement.
These speakers are going to have flaws, also, they are going to work. If you have something constructive to add, please, add it. If you can teach us something, please, teach us. If you wouldn't be satisfied until it's 20-20K +/-1dB then this isn't the build for you.
I have attached the zma and frd files for the drivers selected for anyone who wants to be a positive influence
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Not bad IMO....
The sim includes resistance of the inductors as listed in the cart. If the OP is willing, I would suggest upgrading "low L1" to the 15GA option from Jantzen. The rest I would just use the 20GA units.
Drivers:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-1026&scqty=2
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-020
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-334&scqty=4
That's $180 worth of drivers and $120 worth of X-over
The sim includes resistance of the inductors as listed in the cart. If the OP is willing, I would suggest upgrading "low L1" to the 15GA option from Jantzen. The rest I would just use the 20GA units.
Drivers:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-1026&scqty=2
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-020
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-334&scqty=4
That's $180 worth of drivers and $120 worth of X-over
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the thing is, he was probably more happy with his speakers than I ever will be with mine
and my 'perfect' speakers would probably only result in a shrug from him
still puzzles me
I learned not to value impressing my wife with results, around the days when Vifa released their aluminium domes, she seems to be 'fidelity deaf'...took that from tone deaf, which my cousin is by the way and he still plays the guitar and enjoys his surround system
I think many people have varying abilities to appreciate fidelity, and to even like something more than they logically should just because it they built it themselves.It is difficult to tell whether this crossover proves that these drivers will work well together, but there are a small number of members on the thread that could tell just by looking at the specs.mdocod said:
There are some acoustic issues that need to be resolved before they can be crossed with satisfaction. Using just the spec sheets leaves a sizeable hole that is usually filled with tweaking by ear, or by experience.
I must make a change to the suggested driver positions. I originally suggested placing the tweeter above the mid-range. I must take that back. Simulation shows a better chance at not getting a nasty hole with the drivers positions as follows. (yellow = tweeter, green = mid)...
Eric
Eric
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What type of crossover is this? There are 4 crossover diagrams there so I'm not sure what the differences between them are.Not bad IMO....
The sim includes resistance of the inductors as listed in the cart. If the OP is willing, I would suggest upgrading "low L1" to the 15GA option from Jantzen. The rest I would just use the 20GA units.
Drivers:
Vifa BC25SG15-04 1" Shielded Dome Tweeter 264-1026
Dayton PK165-8 6" Professional Kevlar/Paper Cone Midrange 295-020
Dayton Audio DA270-8 10" Aluminum Cone Woofer 295-334
That's $180 worth of drivers and $120 worth of X-over
I wouldn't be opposed to changing the design to a 2-way like some of you suggest I could see it being a nice 2-way if the woofers can get high enough response to be paired with just a tweeter.
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All 4 diagrams are the same exact x-over, the first shows it with the tweeter with polarity flipped, which is going to be the way you want to run the system normally, the other 3 charts show each of the drivers being taken out of "normal" polarity from the rest of the system in order to show a proper droop that confirms that there aren't any glaring phase issues with the system when wired correctly.
I have been lead to believe that confirmation of the "dip" when wired out of phase is an important design aspect for speaker building/simulating.
The x-over is a 2nd order on both the mid and low drivers, and a 3rd order on the tweeter. Impedance correction has been applied to the mid and low frequency drivers (zobel) in order to improve the effects of their low pass filters.
I should re-arrange the diagram so it's easier to understand the wiring. I'll try to do that if you want?
Eric
I have been lead to believe that confirmation of the "dip" when wired out of phase is an important design aspect for speaker building/simulating.
The x-over is a 2nd order on both the mid and low drivers, and a 3rd order on the tweeter. Impedance correction has been applied to the mid and low frequency drivers (zobel) in order to improve the effects of their low pass filters.
I should re-arrange the diagram so it's easier to understand the wiring. I'll try to do that if you want?
Eric
this worries me
looks like 5 ohm to me, below Fs
and 8ohm from Fs, and up to about 2khz
or what do we see different ?
but you are ofcourse right that if you cross it above 2khz, you may have to 'calculate' with whatever impedance the xo is 'seeing', in the stopband beyond the xo point
I also notice you use it more like 'filler driver'
which might be ok
but its a high 97db closed back pro mid
so why is there no attenuation in xo ?
or have I missed something ?
A few people have recommended I try a 2-way design do you think that is something that might work?
10" woofer with alu cone, in a 2way, might be tricky
tho PartsExp even suggest MTM with this woofer
that is a surprice
but even if far from 'ideal', it might give better result, being easier to handle than a 3way with complicated xo
but hard to say
maybe 2.5way would work
evenso, I would think about using an old style cone tweeter
not all are good, but a few are, and still cheap, and easy to handle
A 2.5way is actually a really good idea since I will have 2 woofers in each box. These woofers frequency range: 25-6,000 Hz so it certainly looks like they could handle the low to mid range and then crossover to the tweeters around 4k.
Nothing is bought I have it all in my parts-expres cart ready to be purchased I'm just waiting on final decisions.
ah, no, not 4khz
here is a suggestion
you have 4 10" woofers, and 2 Vifa tweeter
right ?
with a cheap, but still good mid, you might get away with the simplest 6db filters
1. it would be much easier fore you to handle
2. could be expencive to trash a big 3way filter
They say they go all the way up to 6,000hz but yea that would be fine but right now the mid seems to be the hardest part.
oh
please, hold the horses my friend, and your cart
drivers may be ok
they just dont match each other very well
I am willing to change any of the drivers but me and my dad are trying to use the boxes that he currently has which have holes for 2 10's and are around 8.31cuft so the woofers must sound good in them. I think we might be able to change the front mdf piece so that we could change the woofer sizes if there is a better match.
yeah, it might do 6khz, but surely sound like hell when doing that
you might be able to find a fine mid at a flea market, from an old TV, or something
some old speakers, or even cheap crappy speaker sometimes have nice little paper mids
and thats not even a joke
its not difficult to change
by cutting out a piece of the front baffle, and mount a woofer on a new detachable baffle
or glue a new one on
8.31cuft ?
thats quite lot, isnt it ?
hell, Im not good at feet and inches
We actually already did that for these 10's a long time ago so it wouldn't be a problem. Yea they are huge I'm not sure what was in there originally I think 4 10's were in there first. But he would like to use them again so we don't have to build new boxes although it is looking like we might have to, to get drivers that will match.
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