You are very far away of admitting or accepting what others tell/told you (advising and counseling from experienced diyAudio members, not me).
Right now I have all the drivers that mdocod has recommend for me to buy in my cart, so how is that not accepting? I'm working on a tight budget I can't afford some of the stuff the others have recommend. I'm also going to build my own crossovers which was recommend by everyone so what are you talking about?You are very far away of admitting or accepting what others tell/told you (advising and counseling from experienced diyAudio members, not me).
You don't need the impedance of the drivers to match at all. The celestion driver you have in mind there would work just fine. Just have to account for the impedance differences and power consumption differences when designing the x-over. It's seriously no big deal. If you took all of your concern about ohms and watts and shifted that concern towards proper integration with a well design x-over then you would be much better off.
Gotcha ok these are the drivers I am looking at getting for the project then:
Vifa BC25SG15-04 1" Shielded Dome Tweeter 264-1026
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-334&scqty=4
Celestion TF0615MR 6" Professional Midrange Speaker 50W 294-2054 (Just because it's sealed back so I don't have to make an enclosure.)
My dad does have some mids and tweeters currently but they are just radio shack replacements a piezo tweeter and sealed back so it would probably be a good idea to just get these new ones right?
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It's ok at first I missed the last mid that was sealed I mean if we really have to we might have some mdf left over that we can make a small sealed encloser out of for a mid but the less work the better I just want him to have his stereo finished haha.
I'm having a bit of a problem with the celestion driver... The specifications claim that it is an 8 ohm driver, but the impedance chart provided by the manufacturer is far from dipping into the 8 ohm territory. In fact, it seems to chart more like a 16ohm driver. This discrepancy makes it hard to move forward since they claim that the SPL chart is based on "1W" input. In other words, we have no frame of reference to discern whether they used 2.83V like a normal 8 ohm driver would be tested at, or something else.
Another interesting discrepancy, is the 10" woofers, however, I have already solved the problem.... The chart for these drivers suggests a sensitivity of about 93dB, however, they are actually only ~88dB sensitive based on T/S perimeters. I was curious about the discrepancy and contacted PE tech guys to ask about it earlier today. They acknowledged that the driver was probably charted incorrectly, 5dB over what it should read. We can fix this with an adjustment to the SPL trace so it's not a big deal.
I would not want to move forward with a simulation on the celestion driver until I had confirmation of the impedance and SPL charts being accurate.
Eric
Another interesting discrepancy, is the 10" woofers, however, I have already solved the problem.... The chart for these drivers suggests a sensitivity of about 93dB, however, they are actually only ~88dB sensitive based on T/S perimeters. I was curious about the discrepancy and contacted PE tech guys to ask about it earlier today. They acknowledged that the driver was probably charted incorrectly, 5dB over what it should read. We can fix this with an adjustment to the SPL trace so it's not a big deal.
I would not want to move forward with a simulation on the celestion driver until I had confirmation of the impedance and SPL charts being accurate.
Eric
Wow you are going all out to help me thank you for all the help. Ok use the http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-020http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-020 driver then (might as well stick with dayton) if we have to build small little sealed boxes on the back of the front that is fine I'm sure I have enough mdf to do that. No circular or table saw tho so might have to use a jig saw.
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Hi,
This thread is far too much "discussion" and bugger all common sense.
Appallingly bad mixture / choice of drivers and utter garbage talked about
the c/o details and sensitivity matching of the drivers. Its the blind being
led by those who agree with them the most, a certain recipe for disaster.
It has been a lost cause for pages, and a fine example of how not to do it.
Sorry for being so blunt, I just can't believe where it has ended up.
rgds, sreten.
The Tarkus design will completely slaughter what it being considered,
which IMHO is not even worth building as it will be so badly wrong.
Don't mess around with difficult drivers if you don't know what your doing.
This thread is far too much "discussion" and bugger all common sense.
Appallingly bad mixture / choice of drivers and utter garbage talked about
the c/o details and sensitivity matching of the drivers. Its the blind being
led by those who agree with them the most, a certain recipe for disaster.
It has been a lost cause for pages, and a fine example of how not to do it.
Sorry for being so blunt, I just can't believe where it has ended up.
rgds, sreten.
The Tarkus design will completely slaughter what it being considered,
which IMHO is not even worth building as it will be so badly wrong.
Don't mess around with difficult drivers if you don't know what your doing.
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long time since I decided to focus on my own things
but Im still glad not everyone does that
anyone is free to make whatever choice of drivers he like, or design
and perfectly fine fore other to comment, positivly or negatively
but also true that only he himself will be able make it work
noone can do that fore him
good to try and help out, sure thing
but in the end, the builder is the only one there, with the speaker, and the choice he made
well, to be honest, its also a long time since I stopped recommending designs I have never even heard
and I dont trust a design just because a certain name have been put on it
but thats a different matter
I think its wrong to say 'give up, you cant do this or that'
even if it might be true
well, might be ok to just say it
but repeating it becomes boring
as much as I think its equally wrong to promisse a good result
too many variables can still change the result
doesnt really take much to tilt a speaker
even if making all the 'right choices'
basicly, with sound, there is no possible way to ensure or promisse a good result
but maybe I look at it differently
to me its more like a priority list
and the builder decides the order of priorities
if the goal is building a speaker with his dad, or vice versa, then thats top priority
fore me, the priority list rules
the rest just follows that, good and bad
I really think an individual priority list would solve a lot of issues
and I would really like to see one, some day
to me its more like a priority list
and the builder decides the order of priorities
if the goal is building a speaker with his dad, or vice versa, then thats top priority
fore me, the priority list rules
the rest just follows that, good and bad
I really think an individual priority list would solve a lot of issues
and I would really like to see one, some day
Hi,
True. But there are lies, damn lies and statistics.
Statistically its possible the uniformed can come up with something good,
but not likely, especially when you can see glaring faults. I'm not promising
anything or ensuring anything other than what I say is to me common sense.
It is a learning process, and because a person can't see why something
will be wrong, doesn't change the fact that it is. Whilst what you say is
true to an extent, in my book it is the most common excuse to do things
"this" way because a person can't see what is wrong with the approach.
In my book its not a good attitude if building something for somebody
else. Would you drive a car built by someone who can't talk steering
geometry, stability and safety ? But says its got 4 wheels and goes
round corners ? The chances of it being good to drive ? And safe ?
Your right I've never heard the Tarkus, but that doesn't mean I cannot
appraise the design methodology and the apparent measured results.
Statistically what I'm saying is true, that I can promise / ensure.
From what I can see the chances of the OP ending up with a decent
3-way speaker from where this thread has got to is very near zero.
It is an opinion you can take or leave, I'm not forcing it on anyone.
rgds, Sreten.
From undefinitions FAQ's I linked to ages ago : The Repository->DIY->Proven Designs
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ah, well, its a start ofcourse
and maybe even a good one
or at least better than 'nothing'
fore a first time builder, or 'designer', I think a 2way with 5" woofer is the best choise
almost anything else is bound to give trouble
but I also once met a guy who built big 3way speakers with random drivers he just found
and random premade crossovers, he also just found, or ripped out of other random speakers
and built ramdomly sized boxes, etc etc
he was very happy, and proud of his 'work'
well, I couldnt argue with that
and to be honest, I had heard worse, and better
the better one Im still working on, 15 years later
the thing is, he was probably more happy with his speakers than I ever will be with mine
and my 'perfect' speakers would probably only result in a shrug from him
still puzzles me
one morale to conclude could be, never try to design hifi speakers
its impossible anyway
but to build disco speakers, that is possible
not even sure yet if its a joke or not
next project...subs
carefully planned building-blocks can be a good choice, yes
especially when a budget is 'a bit limited'
but also means you have to live with some 'limitations', fore a while
but I guess 'limitations' are there anyway, no matter what
man, we are not making it easy, are we ?
Every speaker is a compromise, it's only a comprise because we don't have unlimited money (most of us!) but then again there will always be comprises whether it be size, distortion....
Hi,
Once you've got used to decent loudspeakers there is no way back.
This applies to everyone, hifi buff or not, and especially women.
Convincing yourself your half-baked creation is really good is an
entirely different matter, the same thing applies to flashy looking
but poor quality bought loudspeakers.
A few years ago I told a friend his speakers were letting his music
system down. He said they can't be, look at the quality of those
"cast frame" drivers. I took the grilles off which included the
flashy looking "cast frames" to reveal dirt cheap drivers.
Only then would he consider what I was saying was true. I found
him a pair of very boring looking used speakers, fitted with decent
drivers and a proper crossover, after a period of getting used to
them he admitted they were simply miles better, for £20.
(And they were, Dynatrons fitted with Peerless 8" and the famous
paper tweeter, proper c/o versus 3 way music centre tat with
just caps on the cheap "midrange" and dirt cheap tweeter.
Aside from the better response, distortion was vastly better.)
Every home made lash up I've ever heard has been poor, not
that they don't work, but they could have been miles better.
I might be a relatively (to some) old fart on my soapbox, but
I thought it worth saying. Long threads like this one always
wander off into pure mediocrity and a lash up mentality.
$400 spent a proper design is far better than spending
somewhat less but still an appreciable amount on what
will be almost certainly a lot worse. YMMV though ....
rgds, sreten.
I did contribute near the start of this thread. 14 / 15
pages in and car c/o's and poor driver combinations are
being discussed, its not a good sign to the experienced.
Once you've got used to decent loudspeakers there is no way back.
This applies to everyone, hifi buff or not, and especially women.
Convincing yourself your half-baked creation is really good is an
entirely different matter, the same thing applies to flashy looking
but poor quality bought loudspeakers.
A few years ago I told a friend his speakers were letting his music
system down. He said they can't be, look at the quality of those
"cast frame" drivers. I took the grilles off which included the
flashy looking "cast frames" to reveal dirt cheap drivers.
Only then would he consider what I was saying was true. I found
him a pair of very boring looking used speakers, fitted with decent
drivers and a proper crossover, after a period of getting used to
them he admitted they were simply miles better, for £20.
(And they were, Dynatrons fitted with Peerless 8" and the famous
paper tweeter, proper c/o versus 3 way music centre tat with
just caps on the cheap "midrange" and dirt cheap tweeter.
Aside from the better response, distortion was vastly better.)
Every home made lash up I've ever heard has been poor, not
that they don't work, but they could have been miles better.
I might be a relatively (to some) old fart on my soapbox, but
I thought it worth saying. Long threads like this one always
wander off into pure mediocrity and a lash up mentality.
$400 spent a proper design is far better than spending
somewhat less but still an appreciable amount on what
will be almost certainly a lot worse. YMMV though ....
rgds, sreten.
I did contribute near the start of this thread. 14 / 15
pages in and car c/o's and poor driver combinations are
being discussed, its not a good sign to the experienced.
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