Well thank God for that !
I'm so pleased that you got the same result - it's hard to describe these things sometimes when they are this good - and particularly after the gains we got with the mica caps
Congratulations Walter.
Andrew
Thanks Andrew. I am finally home and looking forward to a cold beer and some serious listening enjoyment. System is warming up.
I always wanted good sound but could never pay the price. This 20 year old ARCAM player has been more fun per $ than I could ever have imagined. Total out of pocket cost for this mod ... $1.00, and I have 4 left over Zener diodes for the parts bin. I think of the thousands of 1541 players sold that could have sounded this good ... unbelievable. I must admit there is not much left that is ARCAM. At some point, I will have to start with a fresh PCB and build a new 1541 dac from scratch. This is starting to look a little Frankenstein and getting easy to break.
Attachments
It looks very powerfully driven by... is that 5 traff's in there under the stuff ?
It's how it sounds at the end of the day that matters and you have clearly invested heavily in the thinking department and the components too....I mean...Black Gates in abundance....blimey !!
Must sound fantastic with all that grunt and reserve power.
Walter, if you don't mind.....can I PM you regarding the valve buffer ? I need to ask some Q's but don't want to post on here - it's not fair to Simon imo
Andrew
It's how it sounds at the end of the day that matters and you have clearly invested heavily in the thinking department and the components too....I mean...Black Gates in abundance....blimey !!
Must sound fantastic with all that grunt and reserve power.
Walter, if you don't mind.....can I PM you regarding the valve buffer ? I need to ask some Q's but don't want to post on here - it's not fair to Simon imo
Andrew
No amusement - I like seeing inside your machine and oh.. those lovely open frame capacitors - I like them - kind of military looking.
Did you have some spike issue to get rid of or is this a result of the Radio thing ?
In fact, have you cured all that interference / crosstalk stuff ?
Hope so.
Have you now decided on a new layout for the offboard ps too ?
I will be loading my spare case with traff's this weekend and this issue could not have come up at a better time.
Can we just fire in clean smoothed DC via an umbilical to the player ?
Or would these DC lines be susceptible to interference too ?
The 4.7 or 10 ohm resistor trick - would they go on the secondry AC lines prior to rectification and smoothing ?
More mysteries unfolding
Andrew
The DC umbilical will be terminated at both ends with fairly low impedance. This will make the DC lines very resistant to picking up interference. Twisted pairs/triplets/star quads are quite resistant to distant field pickup.
The client circuit will need effective decoupling. That local decoupling may be slightly more extensive when the PSU is remotely located.
I am no expert here. I believe that you better move DC on the umbilical.. it will be open to DC. Keep short, twist and possibly shield. But at the consumer, RF filters can then finish. An inductor, filter and ferrit bead close to consumer and good to great. IMHO
Pardon ?
The SEPC brought the largest step ?
I've only got them round the DAC chip but have noticed you have 150 / 16's everywhere.
Is this really noticeable ?
Do tell when you get chance
Andrew
I suspect you have them in the key locations. I replaced all the stock 100u electrolytes with oscon sep. Did them all at once so can't comment on any value of doing them all or just some.
Where they blew me away was on the I2S/clock board. i replaced BG STD and N caps with a pair of large Panasonic filters followed by the oscon sep caps. Big improvement on that position. This board is very well thought out Peter Daniel design that jumped forward with the Oscon.
Last edited:
Additional impressions
I have had a few days to get to know the system with the DEM reclock. I continue to be very happy with the sound. When I first heard the Mica cap treatment, I was impressed with the improvement, but after a couple of days listening had a nagging feeling that there was more. With the Zener diode tweek, I have now quickly become accustomed to the sound and find it satisfying. The biggest issue I have now is I am becoming intolerant of recordings that are over processed. I find over compressed and over studio engineered music increasingly irritating, and crave simple well laid down recordings where the musicians are actually in the same room playing music together.
Simon, you will be pleased to hear that I am finally taking your advice and getting a toe in the super reg waters. I was ordering some stuff from Parts connexion and saw a super sale on Burson regs. They had -5v and -15v on for $16 ea so I could not refuse. If I get hooked, I'll need to address the +5v and the clock/usb board later. Happily it never ends.
I have had a few days to get to know the system with the DEM reclock. I continue to be very happy with the sound. When I first heard the Mica cap treatment, I was impressed with the improvement, but after a couple of days listening had a nagging feeling that there was more. With the Zener diode tweek, I have now quickly become accustomed to the sound and find it satisfying. The biggest issue I have now is I am becoming intolerant of recordings that are over processed. I find over compressed and over studio engineered music increasingly irritating, and crave simple well laid down recordings where the musicians are actually in the same room playing music together.
Simon, you will be pleased to hear that I am finally taking your advice and getting a toe in the super reg waters. I was ordering some stuff from Parts connexion and saw a super sale on Burson regs. They had -5v and -15v on for $16 ea so I could not refuse. If I get hooked, I'll need to address the +5v and the clock/usb board later. Happily it never ends.
Close mic'd natural music is the only way to go - a lot of my stuff is very simple concert piano stuff that connects with me emotionally - won't go into that too much
On my jazz side the same applies - I like some of Bob James newer stuff ( some of it's corny crap hotel background music ) but when he get's his musicians head on along with Marcus Miller and Lee Ritenour you can hear them all communicating, whispering even counting sometimes and their instruments resonate naturally all in one room - so it seems.
I've played a concert grand many times - all 8 feet 11 and 3/4 inches of it with 45,373 pounds of string tension and over 16 pound hammers which, with the lid up, will reduce you to tears played hard and properly driven.
I've heard only one system in my now 50 years almost ' get it ' - stacked ESL 63's with pretty serious valve amps - the likes of which are beyond criticism.....plus SME 20, it''s ' 5 ' arm and Koetsu.
Here I am fiddling with digital, building gainclones and lightspeed attenuators
and hoping like hell every time I switch on after a mod or two.........maybe this is it !!
NOT :-(
It won't stop me though, hey maybe super regs could be the answer or my wasp filled valve buffer ( getting quieter now - )
erm...what is this about again...oh yeah...studio engineered music
It becomes more rubbish sounding the more our CD Players improve because maybe we're ( nearly ) almost at analogue levels now...right back to where it all started.
LP's
Oh dear - what a mistake ' perfect sound forever ' was
Andrew
On my jazz side the same applies - I like some of Bob James newer stuff ( some of it's corny crap hotel background music ) but when he get's his musicians head on along with Marcus Miller and Lee Ritenour you can hear them all communicating, whispering even counting sometimes and their instruments resonate naturally all in one room - so it seems.
I've played a concert grand many times - all 8 feet 11 and 3/4 inches of it with 45,373 pounds of string tension and over 16 pound hammers which, with the lid up, will reduce you to tears played hard and properly driven.
I've heard only one system in my now 50 years almost ' get it ' - stacked ESL 63's with pretty serious valve amps - the likes of which are beyond criticism.....plus SME 20, it''s ' 5 ' arm and Koetsu.
Here I am fiddling with digital, building gainclones and lightspeed attenuators
and hoping like hell every time I switch on after a mod or two.........maybe this is it !!
NOT :-(
It won't stop me though, hey maybe super regs could be the answer or my wasp filled valve buffer ( getting quieter now -
)erm...what is this about again...oh yeah...studio engineered music
It becomes more rubbish sounding the more our CD Players improve because maybe we're ( nearly ) almost at analogue levels now...right back to where it all started.
LP's
Oh dear - what a mistake ' perfect sound forever ' was
Andrew
A kindred soul...
Andrew, I think I am heading down a similar path in music tastes. I will never know the joy of playing a concert grand, but once in a while get to hear one from the audience. Awesome. Recently a few feet away while Stevie Wonder belted out some pretty good stuff.
16 pound hammers.. I had no idea!
We seem to be on a similar path with equipment. I am using a Peter Daniel GainClone with a Lightspeed hard wired to the PCB. I have never heard a good valve amp, so I am taking a leap of faith building a big pair of OTL mono blocks. I think this tweaked out ARCAM will deliver the source ok.
There is definitely a human connection to the artist and the music when you get it right. I remember being spooked the first time I heard the singer’s breath between notes after I added the Lightspeed. Now I feel the presence of the artist in the room with me. Love this stuff!
Andrew, I think I am heading down a similar path in music tastes. I will never know the joy of playing a concert grand, but once in a while get to hear one from the audience. Awesome. Recently a few feet away while Stevie Wonder belted out some pretty good stuff.
16 pound hammers.. I had no idea!
We seem to be on a similar path with equipment. I am using a Peter Daniel GainClone with a Lightspeed hard wired to the PCB. I have never heard a good valve amp, so I am taking a leap of faith building a big pair of OTL mono blocks. I think this tweaked out ARCAM will deliver the source ok.
There is definitely a human connection to the artist and the music when you get it right. I remember being spooked the first time I heard the singer’s breath between notes after I added the Lightspeed. Now I feel the presence of the artist in the room with me. Love this stuff!
erm...16 pound strike, sorry
I'm a BIG Stevie Wonder fan too particularly the 70's stuff - rare talent indeed !
Love my lightspeed and will move up to the ' lighter note ' model by Uriah this year.
I have four monobloc GC's individually powering the lower mids, upper mids and hf units then a large dual mono power amp for the bass drive units.
My valve buffer is getting better but is a bit weird in my ' good system ' which has my alpha in it - it makes the strangest sounds - almost like a radio station is about to be transmitted - plus some crackles.
Upstairs with the alpha 5 ( my test system ) there's none of this but instead low level hum from one speaker only - which gets audible as I up the volume past 12 noon on the volume pot - this is seriously LOUD and I don't ever listen at this level - i's sounds fantastic at 10 ocklock.
I think my modded Alpha CD player is doing something here and the buffer doesn't like it at all.
DC or something to do with the Audio GD Sun discrete op amps.
Can I do anything with a resistor to ground or some bypass caps on the buffer ? Maybe a 10R with some diodes in parallel ?
Peter Daniels stuff is about as good as it gets and I've been tempted a few times - are yours 3875 's ?
The valve monoblocs I was referring too earlier were Lumley Reference units and the system as the ' whole ' was just amazing - still not heard transparency like that since - my mouth fell open along with most other peoples in the room !!
It did the lot, bass ( with real tight control ) midrange as you'd expect and this hf that was quite unlike anything I'd heard before
The stacked speakers stood almost 6 feet tall - staggering sound
Keep going with the idea - valve amps DO work well - I just can't build them properly.....yet !!
Andrew
I'm a BIG Stevie Wonder fan too particularly the 70's stuff - rare talent indeed !
Love my lightspeed and will move up to the ' lighter note ' model by Uriah this year.
I have four monobloc GC's individually powering the lower mids, upper mids and hf units then a large dual mono power amp for the bass drive units.
My valve buffer is getting better but is a bit weird in my ' good system ' which has my alpha in it - it makes the strangest sounds - almost like a radio station is about to be transmitted - plus some crackles.
Upstairs with the alpha 5 ( my test system ) there's none of this but instead low level hum from one speaker only - which gets audible as I up the volume past 12 noon on the volume pot - this is seriously LOUD and I don't ever listen at this level - i's sounds fantastic at 10 ocklock.
I think my modded Alpha CD player is doing something here and the buffer doesn't like it at all.
DC or something to do with the Audio GD Sun discrete op amps.
Can I do anything with a resistor to ground or some bypass caps on the buffer ? Maybe a 10R with some diodes in parallel ?
Peter Daniels stuff is about as good as it gets and I've been tempted a few times - are yours 3875 's ?
The valve monoblocs I was referring too earlier were Lumley Reference units and the system as the ' whole ' was just amazing - still not heard transparency like that since - my mouth fell open along with most other peoples in the room !!
It did the lot, bass ( with real tight control ) midrange as you'd expect and this hf that was quite unlike anything I'd heard before
The stacked speakers stood almost 6 feet tall - staggering sound
Keep going with the idea - valve amps DO work well - I just can't build them properly.....yet !!
Andrew
Andrew - hum problems you are going to have to work through in the confines of your own system.
Every metal euqipment case must be linked to it's incoming mains earth for safety; but you are free to leave signal 0v inside each case unconnected to this Earth (providing you can observe suitable isolation, at least 3mm creepage distance etc) It is also a solid general recommendation to bond signal 0v to Mains earth ONCE in any system. I like doing this at the pre-amp.
If you have this in place, then hum is entirely due to some other fault...
Every metal euqipment case must be linked to it's incoming mains earth for safety; but you are free to leave signal 0v inside each case unconnected to this Earth (providing you can observe suitable isolation, at least 3mm creepage distance etc) It is also a solid general recommendation to bond signal 0v to Mains earth ONCE in any system. I like doing this at the pre-amp.
If you have this in place, then hum is entirely due to some other fault...
Hey, thanks for the advice Martin - I certainly don't want a dangerous quick fix with the outrageous voltages inside this thing - I'm nervous enough around it as it is !!
I already double discharge the big lytic caps and then further bleed them with an LED and a resistor - it's a bit like OCD - I just don't want to sample a dc belt from it....ever
I'm fairly certain the hum is to do with the 6.3v ac heater feeds and I can move the cables until I find the right spot.
I'm just baffled as to why one CD player is OK with it and the other NOT
Andrew.
I already double discharge the big lytic caps and then further bleed them with an LED and a resistor - it's a bit like OCD - I just don't want to sample a dc belt from it....ever
I'm fairly certain the hum is to do with the 6.3v ac heater feeds and I can move the cables until I find the right spot.
I'm just baffled as to why one CD player is OK with it and the other NOT
Andrew.
Hi Martin,
What about the double insulated stuff with no IEC mains earth pin?
Ta,
Ant
Last edited:
Andrew
I would recommend working systematically through Lukas' hum tutorial. I think it will get you to the bottom of it. I suppose the differences in the 2 systems could be aggrevated by different grounding issues in the systems or interconnects that expose a problem in the buffer differently. Crackling makes me wonder if you have a bad cap in there. I have been through that with some pretty weird sounds until getting rid of the bad caps.
Sounds like a pretty serious system with the tri-amping. I use Peter's 3875 premium kit & built it in a very tight space with large copper bars for heat sinks. Seemed like a good idea at the time and I have been completely content with the sound for 4 years. He lives not far from me and I've been to his house to pick stuff up. He's as nice in person as he comes across on the web.
The burson shunt regulators showed up yesterday and of course I had to try to squeeze one in. what a pain this is. I hate working in tight spaces and tried the -15v one first. It is too big to fit the space. Hooked it up and killed the the arcam dead again
I get no sound, so it could be again a broken wire. I measured only -8V output, so either I have miswired it, or it does not have enough power at 80ma to power this circuit. sigh replacing the lm337 with the burson required me to remove r205 and bypass r206. not sure if I did the last part correctly, and I am not at all sure of my solder joints. Whenever I change something on this pcb I end up lifting traces. its almost like the pcb repells solder. I'll try putting the lm337 back and try the -5v instead.
I would recommend working systematically through Lukas' hum tutorial. I think it will get you to the bottom of it. I suppose the differences in the 2 systems could be aggrevated by different grounding issues in the systems or interconnects that expose a problem in the buffer differently. Crackling makes me wonder if you have a bad cap in there. I have been through that with some pretty weird sounds until getting rid of the bad caps.
Sounds like a pretty serious system with the tri-amping. I use Peter's 3875 premium kit & built it in a very tight space with large copper bars for heat sinks. Seemed like a good idea at the time and I have been completely content with the sound for 4 years. He lives not far from me and I've been to his house to pick stuff up. He's as nice in person as he comes across on the web.
The burson shunt regulators showed up yesterday and of course I had to try to squeeze one in. what a pain this is. I hate working in tight spaces and tried the -15v one first. It is too big to fit the space. Hooked it up and killed the the arcam dead again
I get no sound, so it could be again a broken wire. I measured only -8V output, so either I have miswired it, or it does not have enough power at 80ma to power this circuit. sigh replacing the lm337 with the burson required me to remove r205 and bypass r206. not sure if I did the last part correctly, and I am not at all sure of my solder joints. Whenever I change something on this pcb I end up lifting traces. its almost like the pcb repells solder. I'll try putting the lm337 back and try the -5v instead.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.