Guys,
As usual for DIY, extraordinary attention is paid to driver hardware, cone materials and manufacturers. The so called "driver A sounds mucht better than driver B" argument is without any merit. This is invariably an apples vs oranges type discussion.
These statements should be taken with a grain of salt, and can only be established if level and filtered acoustic output of driver a and driver B are identical, otherwise you are actually listening to filter or level caused differences. Even 1.5 dB makes a difference.
Use 2 rather different, say and AT and a SB 6.5" midwoofers with not too exotic SPL characteristics, and somewhat comparable T/S parameters, put them in identical boxes, apply UE and turn both into textbook acoustic output 4th orde LR lowpass drivers.
You wil be uttery surprised how similar they will sound. But then again,this experiment can only be done if both drivers are physically comparable and, qua acoustic output after filtering, identical.
So : direct improvement of driver A over driver B ? It is all very subjective.
Kind Regards,
Eelco
As usual for DIY, extraordinary attention is paid to driver hardware, cone materials and manufacturers. The so called "driver A sounds mucht better than driver B" argument is without any merit. This is invariably an apples vs oranges type discussion.
These statements should be taken with a grain of salt, and can only be established if level and filtered acoustic output of driver a and driver B are identical, otherwise you are actually listening to filter or level caused differences. Even 1.5 dB makes a difference.
Use 2 rather different, say and AT and a SB 6.5" midwoofers with not too exotic SPL characteristics, and somewhat comparable T/S parameters, put them in identical boxes, apply UE and turn both into textbook acoustic output 4th orde LR lowpass drivers.
You wil be uttery surprised how similar they will sound. But then again,this experiment can only be done if both drivers are physically comparable and, qua acoustic output after filtering, identical.
So : direct improvement of driver A over driver B ? It is all very subjective.
Kind Regards,
Eelco
I had this experience with tweeters. I bought a very nice ribbon Swans RT-1 and placed them in the monitor with then current visaton DSM25FFL dome. I had one with dome and one with ribbon. If I didn't knew it I would not hear a difference in these drivers. When buying the ribbons I though they would improve the sound much on the more common titanium-dome.
On the other side I hear a difference with every material change in driver , resistor, capacitor or cable. And we are listening to the mix of them it is like cooking to make the right recipe.
There are other who will step over this and say they applying physics and math theory and claiming they know best. What in many ways is much to simple because they do not know where their model fails.
Then the attraction of nice looking expensive drivers with a good technical story witch also attract me. What really would be interesting what will be audible in the comparison of the AT of 300,-Euro to the 50,- Euro monacor. Warning using cheep drivers doesn't help in claiming one build a top performing system.
On the other side I hear a difference with every material change in driver , resistor, capacitor or cable. And we are listening to the mix of them it is like cooking to make the right recipe.
There are other who will step over this and say they applying physics and math theory and claiming they know best. What in many ways is much to simple because they do not know where their model fails.
Then the attraction of nice looking expensive drivers with a good technical story witch also attract me. What really would be interesting what will be audible in the comparison of the AT of 300,-Euro to the 50,- Euro monacor. Warning using cheep drivers doesn't help in claiming one build a top performing system.
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Helmuth,
When comparing dome tweetres and ribbons you are again comparing apples and pears, because the off ais charactristcs are widely dissmuora. For a proer comparison the physicallay outr and dmensons ( hence my 6.5 midwoofer suggestion) must be comparable.
Over te last 20 year I have measured and tinkered with literally hundreds of drivers. I do not share the view that resistors, caps cause differences. Once levels are carefuly equalized/matched ,virtualy any difference vanishes ...
Kind regards,
Eelco
When comparing dome tweetres and ribbons you are again comparing apples and pears, because the off ais charactristcs are widely dissmuora. For a proer comparison the physicallay outr and dmensons ( hence my 6.5 midwoofer suggestion) must be comparable.
Over te last 20 year I have measured and tinkered with literally hundreds of drivers. I do not share the view that resistors, caps cause differences. Once levels are carefuly equalized/matched ,virtualy any difference vanishes ...
Kind regards,
Eelco
Oops, sorry too quick: read:
off axis characteristics of domes and ribbons are widely dissimilar, especially vertical. For proper comparison the physical lay out and dimensions must be roughly comparable.
I would high encourage the AT vs. Monacor experiment. However, this will only work if you use filter simulation software equipped with an Optimizer.
I will gladly offer help and input. I can assure you, you will be pleasantly surprised about the results of this comparison.
Regards,
Eelco
off axis characteristics of domes and ribbons are widely dissimilar, especially vertical. For proper comparison the physical lay out and dimensions must be roughly comparable.
I would high encourage the AT vs. Monacor experiment. However, this will only work if you use filter simulation software equipped with an Optimizer.
I will gladly offer help and input. I can assure you, you will be pleasantly surprised about the results of this comparison.
Regards,
Eelco
Thing is you need to go active DSP to effectively sort deviations between two similar drivers and even then there are still differences. This isn't going to be common place and so swapping drivers is more apparent. After all most speakers are passive.
I use a DEQX most of the time and with this tool you can achieve very close tolerances when assessing drivers within a design. My thoughts on what your suggesting are that the overall tonality of sound maybe similar but for me there's no denying changes in apparent details as well as shifts in the stereophonic parameters.
With what I say here I'm talking about a complete design and not just trying to assess a driver in isolation.
What kind of differences will be audible is the question, or would something like the shape of the used baffle be more leading. For what the end result concerns.
Coulda been a lot less..... and a lot less concern with magnet reflections, if you went with neo
It would have to be a different driver, or a custom dealie. I'd not have gone there but it sounds like the radiuses were custom.
Coulda been a lot less..... and a lot less concern with magnet reflections, if you went with neo
With the prices of Neo right now I'm not sure I'd want an AT driver with such a motor.
With the prices of Neo right now I'm not sure I'd want an AT driver with such a motor.
As always, looks like a great project Shin!
After months of searching and procrastinating I've got off the fence and ordered a CNC machine
Its 3 axis with a 1220mm x 1220mm working area which is great for 4ft x 4ft sheets. It'll handle all types of wood and plastics. With a slower feed rate and the water cooling attachment it'll also do marble/corian and softer grades of alu. I saw the same machine working with a plasma cutter attachment and I plan to get one of those eventually to make working metals a simpler task.
Should arrive first week of next month and I have to say I'm looking forward to the extra level of design flexibility it will offer - I plan to go back and redo the bracing with channel rebates and now make them interlocking.
I'll be sure to post a photo at that point and maybe a video or two of it in action cutting the parts for the Apollo.
Its 3 axis with a 1220mm x 1220mm working area which is great for 4ft x 4ft sheets. It'll handle all types of wood and plastics. With a slower feed rate and the water cooling attachment it'll also do marble/corian and softer grades of alu. I saw the same machine working with a plasma cutter attachment and I plan to get one of those eventually to make working metals a simpler task.
Should arrive first week of next month and I have to say I'm looking forward to the extra level of design flexibility it will offer - I plan to go back and redo the bracing with channel rebates and now make them interlocking.
I'll be sure to post a photo at that point and maybe a video or two of it in action cutting the parts for the Apollo.
After months of searching and procrastinating I've got off the fence and ordered a CNC machine
Its 3 axis with a 1220mm x 1220mm working area
ShinOBIWAN,
Congratulations on Yours stunning top notch designs,
Nice
You have Wow, this would be a big step forward for all kind of fast prototyping and precision finalizing. . of . . Yours dreams . .
A friend of mine is in a search for something alike You mention (CNC) for a small production of wooden toys, if the price isn't to die
... then i have maybe a chance in the distant future ... for my project also ...What is the type and manufacturer of the CNC You mention ? and it's price is sure in xx 10K Euros ?? any pics?
I wonder to ask You for Yours opinion, will the type of drivers You chose also be suitable for the max. natural sound playback possible ? if this parameter would be the main criteria ?. did You already decide which 8" driver will You chose ?
I plan to make a pair of active studio monitors (Ultra Compact 4 Way) for SACD mastering and I'm in a
searching phase for the most naturally sounding drivers currently available, any suggestion from Yours enormous experience would be really great. . . 
Thank You
After months of searching and procrastinating I've got off the fence and ordered a CNC machine
Its 3 axis with a 1220mm x 1220mm working area which is great for 4ft x 4ft sheets. It'll handle all types of wood and plastics. With a slower feed rate and the water cooling attachment it'll also do marble/corian and softer grades of alu. I saw the same machine working with a plasma cutter attachment and I plan to get one of those eventually to make working metals a simpler task.
Should arrive first week of next month and I have to say I'm looking forward to the extra level of design flexibility it will offer - I plan to go back and redo the bracing with channel rebates and now make them interlocking.
I'll be sure to post a photo at that point and maybe a video or two of it in action cutting the parts for the Apollo.
Sounds (pun not intended) like you are setting up a factory to be able to churn out small series? Another high quality UK loudspeaker brand in the works?
Hey this is a commercial topicAfter months of searching and procrastinating I've got off the fence and ordered a CNC machine
Its 3 axis with a 1220mm x 1220mm working area which is great for 4ft x 4ft sheets. It'll handle all types of wood and plastics. With a slower feed rate and the water cooling attachment it'll also do marble/corian and softer grades of alu. I saw the same machine working with a plasma cutter attachment and I plan to get one of those eventually to make working metals a simpler task.
Should arrive first week of next month and I have to say I'm looking forward to the extra level of design flexibility it will offer - I plan to go back and redo the bracing with channel rebates and now make them interlocking.
I'll be sure to post a photo at that point and maybe a video or two of it in action cutting the parts for the Apollo.
Cool step Shin I would like to do that also I am to afraid.
The designs look great, and if you can survive the crisis talk this breaks the economy, then you can not be beaten. Succes!
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