I like that kind of design, my wife doesn't seem too excited...
The on-wall bowl rendering or just what I want?
I want something that sounds better than what I have. They have the problem that they don't reach nearly deep enough into LF. So the subwoofer needs to be crossed above 100 Hz which makes its position audible.
Primarily I want to build speakers. The sound is important, but as many have said; the room is in no way perfect for HIFI. But I'm hoping that together with some clever ideas and some correction using miniDSP (probably 2x8 model) I could increase performance considerably.
Not my cup of tea, and certainly not my wifes.
Many good ideas! Towers are kinda ruled out, if they are more than twice the size of the ones we have (which are 14x10 cm). An on-wall line array is not out of the question, Wisdom Audio had som interesting speakers.I think all of these are similar to his existing speakers there are many lovely looking tower speakers but wives don't normally take to them.
Another DIYaudio member has recently built this
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/250366-sonus-faber-cremona-hybrid-clone-8.html
In short I think towers of any kind are ruled out.
Coming back to the On Wall design. How about this?
PA1 Wall Speaker System With Dual Stereo Pairing ? Highsnobiety
Oh and I have a few older photos too from PMC, Paradigm, Monitor Audio and more.
An if all else fails there is Wisdom Audio!
Interesting on wall-speaker. A little too much 80s look maybe, but with a different finish it could be something.
You are saying that getting another kid will put me in a situation were I shouldn't have a hobby for about 10 years before I can afford to get a larger house? Remember that I'm doing this mainly because I like building speakers and secondly because I wish a better HIFI experience.
I thought they were kinda cute... A little deep maybe, the bowl should be cut down a little. The diffraction issue is however real and I actually have been trying to make a design with the bowl the other way around. I'll post some renderings when they look ok
I think the thread has made some progress, at least my decision process is moving forward. I really like the rendering part, it's fun testing different ideas. Soon I'll get to doing some calculations with designs I like, which is also something I enjoy.
People seem to think this process is painful, for me it's a hobby. The planning is as fun as the actual building and owning/listening to parts.
/Anton
onni,
For your situation I would personally combine the ideas behind the pictures below - build a quality in-wall speaker (1, 2 or even 3-way) that will be deeper than what your wall allows, wrap it in a huge chamfer/frame that will be flush to the wall like the 1st picture below so that the negative diffraction effects of on-wall mounting are largely negated and then hide it all by hanging some acoustically transparent art work over them (2nd picture - but without the center speaker). Your sub(s) fill in the bottom end.
This way you get to design and build a set of speakers of whatever sound quality you wish and your wife should be happiest with essentially no speakers in the room at all. Larger art work of course doesn't need to be centered over the speakers.
If you go full-range (1 driver) then you don't need to design the xo. I would personally want to go multi-way with high quality drivers but then you're going to have to be able to measure the on-wall response and build an appropriate xo for it. Any existing design's xo would have to be modified for this application but maybe dsp equalization will be enough to correct for the that? Maybe someone else can tell you more about that if that interests you.
For your situation I would personally combine the ideas behind the pictures below - build a quality in-wall speaker (1, 2 or even 3-way) that will be deeper than what your wall allows, wrap it in a huge chamfer/frame that will be flush to the wall like the 1st picture below so that the negative diffraction effects of on-wall mounting are largely negated and then hide it all by hanging some acoustically transparent art work over them (2nd picture - but without the center speaker). Your sub(s) fill in the bottom end.
This way you get to design and build a set of speakers of whatever sound quality you wish and your wife should be happiest with essentially no speakers in the room at all. Larger art work of course doesn't need to be centered over the speakers.
If you go full-range (1 driver) then you don't need to design the xo. I would personally want to go multi-way with high quality drivers but then you're going to have to be able to measure the on-wall response and build an appropriate xo for it. Any existing design's xo would have to be modified for this application but maybe dsp equalization will be enough to correct for the that? Maybe someone else can tell you more about that if that interests you.
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seriously, if you want a hifi experience, you will not get there by bowls hanging on walls. imaging and early reflection will be a real problem that you wont be able to resolve.
You should get simple small 2 way passive bookshelves kit by a known designer like jeff bagby, zaph, troel and build subwoofers
You should get simple small 2 way passive bookshelves kit by a known designer like jeff bagby, zaph, troel and build subwoofers
Wanna trade?
I built towers for the front speakers. Then when my wife had gone to visit her parents snuck them in.
When she got back her first reaction was "Eeek! you have mutilated my house" Note she said my not ours.
I just sat there and then luck intervened. First there was a Michael Jackson Documentary on TV and she live MJ's music. So she began to enjoy the speakers. The next day our son (age 11) bought home a movie (some special effects super hero thing) and we sat and watched the movie with him. So the speakers sorta sold themselves.
She still occasionally asks, "cant they be as small as those Bose thingies?" and I say "nope" and she continues on wondering what she married. Yeah what, not who!
I know towers are ruled out. That is what I said.
Onni check out the PA1 from my older posts.
In a cinema hall I see that the speakers are placed along the lateral walls
The very simple halls use just two PA ( 12"-15" woofer + HF driver& horn) speakers but with large halls you can locate them at 1/3 ot the total lenght of the hall, thus producing a good "sound".
Go to the cinema!
It's such a condensation of physics and mechanical engineering
PLUS the work that the brain and ears automatically do when a signal
propagates thru the air
The very simple halls use just two PA ( 12"-15" woofer + HF driver& horn) speakers but with large halls you can locate them at 1/3 ot the total lenght of the hall, thus producing a good "sound".
Go to the cinema!
I don't know anything simple!
It's such a condensation of physics and mechanical engineering
PLUS the work that the brain and ears automatically do when a signal
propagates thru the air
well, theres a coupl of speakers that are design to be close to the walls. I would look at known designers that makes great speakers and go from there.
simple means getting a diy kit. Thats what I would do, but thats just me. I prefer buying a design that many diyers have heard and thought was amazing then build a unknown speaker.
In a cinema hall I see that the speakers are placed along the lateral walls
The very simple halls use just two PA ( 12"-15" woofer + HF driver& horn) speakers but with large halls you can locate them at 1/3 ot the total lenght of the hall, thus producing a good "sound".
Go to the cinema!
I don't know anything simple!
It's such a condensation of physics and mechanical engineering
PLUS the work that the brain and ears automatically do when a signal
propagates thru the air
Rating: 3.5 (I asked her if it would be even better if it was just a straight box, and the answer was no).
/Anton
I'd say you have your answer
. Use 2 of these lines (for starters, that's a lot of Ikea bowls) and the subwoofers in the cabinets... done!/end thread
I'm actually leaning towards that solution. I'll do some renderings tonight.I'd say you have your answer
/end thread
/Anton
Wanna trade?
I built towers for the front speakers. Then when my wife had gone to visit her parents snuck them in.
When she got back her first reaction was "Eeek! you have mutilated my house" Note she said my not ours.
I just sat there and then luck intervened. First there was a Michael Jackson Documentary on TV and she live MJ's music. So she began to enjoy the speakers. The next day our son (age 11) bought home a movie (some special effects super hero thing) and we sat and watched the movie with him. So the speakers sorta sold themselves.
She still occasionally asks, "cant they be as small as those Bose thingies?" and I say "nope" and she continues on wondering what she married. Yeah what, not who!
I know towers are ruled out. That is what I said.
Onni check out the PA1 from my older posts.
I "snared" my wife by playing some early Van Halen first time she came to my place....I had my small footprint MTM towers at that time, fast forward 17 yrs & my towers rotted out & needing "replacement/rebuild", she really understands good sound doesn't magically appear out of thin air.....when I proposed humungous replacements, she didn't bat an eye. My project one-square meter(each) OB units didn't phase her.....what trepidations she did have were evaporated when she heard them playing.
Let them HEAR them first before outright dismissal.
_______________________________________________________Rick......
hate to say this, but not sure it will work
you need a design that is certain to work well
what will happen if your wife says ... the old speakers sounded better
definitely both correct! too far apart full-range drivers (others and author of those will object, but I know what I am talking about)
tweeter in the eye level is all it takes
for a 2way array most use a tweeter array as well
those you can probably find well documented, or even as kit
this a very old Monacor/StageLine design, SPA-25PA
never really thought much of it
but now thinking it could be interesting to try it
appears to be a very wide range 10"
with a DSP, who knows what might happen
they are cheap, so with two of them in 2.5way ...
and maybe a Beyma AMT tweeter
never really thought much of it
but now thinking it could be interesting to try it
appears to be a very wide range 10"
with a DSP, who knows what might happen
they are cheap, so with two of them in 2.5way ...
and maybe a Beyma AMT tweeter
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