Currently I am looking to build some for a pretty resolving systems (one is tube base, the other one solid state) , hopefully replacing those 1k+ IC.
Looking for recommendations (concrete with brand and model if possible) for
1. type of wire (some say PCOCC are the most neutral)
2. RCA connectors
3. Shielding
Sound wise the IC can not be dark as my speakers are a bit laid back. Time to recap the cross over but that is a different project.
TIA!
Looking for recommendations (concrete with brand and model if possible) for
1. type of wire (some say PCOCC are the most neutral)
2. RCA connectors
3. Shielding
Sound wise the IC can not be dark as my speakers are a bit laid back. Time to recap the cross over but that is a different project.
TIA!
If you truly believe all the BS presented about the sound of cables, veils and stuff, just make a faithful assessment on how much doe you are willing to blow, and go out shopping.
Otherwise, - a few yards of Belden or Mogami cable and a handful og Neutrik phonos will do the job. Your choice only......
Otherwise, - a few yards of Belden or Mogami cable and a handful og Neutrik phonos will do the job. Your choice only......
Mod hat off:
I'm with the Norske dude here. If you want to know about fancy cables, go to the boutique shops selling them. They will give you all the snake oil you can handle. They'll use words that resemble those in the wine industry.
If you want to know from persons who actually understand cable, hang out here and watch the fireworks. Don't be surprised if this thread doesn't last long. It's a contentious issue and these threads are often shut down for bad behaviour.
Did you happen to use the search function?
I'm with the Norske dude here. If you want to know about fancy cables, go to the boutique shops selling them. They will give you all the snake oil you can handle. They'll use words that resemble those in the wine industry.
If you want to know from persons who actually understand cable, hang out here and watch the fireworks. Don't be surprised if this thread doesn't last long. It's a contentious issue and these threads are often shut down for bad behaviour.
Did you happen to use the search function?
On 8 ohms SP2-XT speakers at 2 Vpp average on a 360 w/ch amp I like 3SO-10 cord from the industrial supply house. Like mcmaster http://www.mcmaster.com/#7081K17 extra flexible neoprene cord $2.40 a foot 25 or 50 ft rolls. Get the kind with the extra flexible wire, ie several hundred strands instead of seven. I picked up 4SO-10 out of the trash at work that had skinned insulation spots unsuitable for 480 VAC. On solo piano top octave source material, I hear less pitch instability (HF IM distortion IMHO) than using 16 gauge zip cord. I use crimp terminals on the amp ends of each, and my speakers require 1/4 phone plugs. The right angle phone plugs I got at sterling electronics in 1978 handle the fat wire better than the straight barrel pamona plugs I bought recently. I don't know where to buy more.
The same effect is audible on my modified sT120 amp which has 80 v rails and high gain 4 mhz Ft modern output transistors. I suspect that amp will put out a lot more than 60 w/ch for microseconds at a time, like piano strikes and percussion hits. The low IM effect is not audible on my repaired 1961 ST70 tube amp, which is much more distorted (1% hd spec) in general.
I have an actual Steinway piano located between the speakers to calibrate my ears when doing this test. Grands have more bass than my console, but the top octave sounds similar to me as the best source material. I'm using a dynagroove LP for this test, Peter Nero Young & Warm & Wonderful, when I fall in love, which has a top octave Steinway solo segment.
The same effect is audible on my modified sT120 amp which has 80 v rails and high gain 4 mhz Ft modern output transistors. I suspect that amp will put out a lot more than 60 w/ch for microseconds at a time, like piano strikes and percussion hits. The low IM effect is not audible on my repaired 1961 ST70 tube amp, which is much more distorted (1% hd spec) in general.
I have an actual Steinway piano located between the speakers to calibrate my ears when doing this test. Grands have more bass than my console, but the top octave sounds similar to me as the best source material. I'm using a dynagroove LP for this test, Peter Nero Young & Warm & Wonderful, when I fall in love, which has a top octave Steinway solo segment.
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Thanks indianajo for your tip! And I hope more suggestions from audiophiles who have heard the differences.
I used to have a Van Alstine ST70 which I had modded a bit by replacing the caps so wonder how much better a ST120 would sound. Interestingly, I also use my piano as reference.
On the other hand, I am a bit disappointed to learn that some here still dispute the difference one can have with better wiring. Why would the same rationale that apply for e.g. speaker drivers have better material differ with cable where a.o. metallurgy (e.g. advantages of PCOCC-A wires, type of plating (e.g. gold vs rhodium); shielding and even magnetism (cfr. High Fidelity Cables) are of importance?
I used to have a Van Alstine ST70 which I had modded a bit by replacing the caps so wonder how much better a ST120 would sound. Interestingly, I also use my piano as reference.
On the other hand, I am a bit disappointed to learn that some here still dispute the difference one can have with better wiring. Why would the same rationale that apply for e.g. speaker drivers have better material differ with cable where a.o. metallurgy (e.g. advantages of PCOCC-A wires, type of plating (e.g. gold vs rhodium); shielding and even magnetism (cfr. High Fidelity Cables) are of importance?
As long there is no recorded facts even today by a spectrum analyzer that sound frequencies (gain) changes in any way due the cable which are getting transferred, this translates that hearing is not going to prove anything either.
In Coaxial cables, the upper bandwidth limit which it does causes losses is measured or better verified at 1GHz.
Good shielding matters allot if you have nearby sources causing significant interference.
This can happen in industrial environments as in a factory, but never at home.
Guitarists know that a cheap guitar-lead can make a 'crackling' sound in a high-gain amp when you bend the lead. Expensive ones usually don't. (Expensive for a guitar cable means about $50 by the way!) I think the reason is the tribo-electric effect of the insulation rubbing internally.
As an Engineer, I don't believe in the snake oil stuff, but I just wonder if interconnects in a loud listening environment could be mechanically vibrated enough to cause this effect at an audible level?
As an Engineer, I don't believe in the snake oil stuff, but I just wonder if interconnects in a loud listening environment could be mechanically vibrated enough to cause this effect at an audible level?
I think I hear differences in cables, but IMO it's nothing more than the total capacitance and the quality of the dielectric. Not even sure the dielectric is a big factor. My CD player has fairly high output impedance, about 600 ohms, and going from high capacitance "give-a-way" cables to Belden 8421 seems to make an audible and positive difference. You'll probably reject that because I think the conductor might be magnetic. The high end rejects magnetic conductors as evil, for reasons that have never been entirely clear to me. Now, I've never done a DBT, or made a measurement with test equipment, so I freely accept that I could be entirely wrong. I don't believe that "better" has anything to do with cost, so for me, very high priced cables fall in the snake oil category.
tribo .. as word it does translate to Greek as rubbing, but there is no electrical theory that an isolated material it would affect in any way a cooper wire.
Possibly we need to find the inventor of this word, and I bet that he is a smart person but with out technical background.
Coaxial cables with soft isolation material in their positive cable, under extreme mechanical pressure, the center cable could approach the shielding more closer but just for a second of time.
This can change instantly parameters as capacitance and impedance.
But as long the inputs of sound mixers are working with large tolerances, i do not think that a balanced (three cables connection) can become as unbalanced due such a mechanical incident.
Therefore I do not think in conclusion that it would be any audible side effect.
**** Disclaimer: Anecdotal, please avoid the usual flaming from skeptics, I will not respond ****
1.
Regarding the type of cable I suggest you to use balanced cable (one conductor for signal, the other for signal ground, the screen tied to signal ground too).
In my personal experience PC-OCC sound more refined and detailed than plain OFC, Neotech and Furutech are two excellent brands.
2.
Regarding RCA connectors, WBT NextGen series copper connectors are very well made and incredibly good sounding,
neotech makes a very low capacitance mic cable, that I was buying for about $1.50 a foot. Together with some tiffany style connectors with teflon insulation and gold plating ( $3.50 each), it makes a connector that I prefer to the furutech I also have... I suspect that it is the lower capacitance -- actually measureable on a capacitance meter.....
Beware, the above is anecdotal only. It could also be that I am biased because I made them.
Beware, the above is anecdotal only. It could also be that I am biased because I made them.
That phrase gave me a good laugh .. Thank you.
Since 1985 and up to the year 2000 I was engaged with assembly and maintenance of FM broadcasting radio.
Technicians like me we were getting extremely happy when discovering and buying RG-213 cable with MIL specs, as we though back then that this magic material it will improve signal coverage.
When the truth was that this cable it will just survive a bit longer by be exposed at the atmospheric elements, compared to usual RG-213.
In 2014 even the cheapest sound cable has inner fine construction, and when sound gets from it, it is in the form of electricity, therefore nothing changes anything until to reach the other end = speaker.
NYS373-* - REAN Connectors
call me cheap...I find these male rca plugs very nice and quite inexpensive.
call me cheap...I find these male rca plugs very nice and quite inexpensive.
I have seen "too cheap" construction - RCA cable that came apart in my hand while trying to remove the plug which was too tight - the barrel overmould failed, stripped back to where you could see the pigtail terminated shield/return which had about a dozen skinny, untinned wires in very open braid, way less than 50% coverage, maybe <20%
quality in RCA audio IC is highly determined by the total weight/coverage of the shield/return - low Ohms is the only way SE has to minimize shield current noise from chassis leakage current
and RF shielding requires 360 degree termination of the outer coax conductor - pigtails let in RF
good Video RCA IC are much more likely to have both right
but Mogami, BlueJeans <~$20 are fine
quality in RCA audio IC is highly determined by the total weight/coverage of the shield/return - low Ohms is the only way SE has to minimize shield current noise from chassis leakage current
and RF shielding requires 360 degree termination of the outer coax conductor - pigtails let in RF
good Video RCA IC are much more likely to have both right
but Mogami, BlueJeans <~$20 are fine
Old 1.0mm T&E. The old black and red had polarised cores so essential to connect the earth to the amp end only. The later non polarised brown and blue does not need the earth connecting as it is fully balanced. Avoid the white sheathed cables as this enhances the highs due to non linear capacitance. Grey is best.
Then cables aren't your topic. Mod your speakers, e.g. raise treble level or whatever they suffer from.
You cannot compensate for speakers issues with any cable, don't matter how good/expensive it is.
BTW, the only "dark sounding" IC I can imagine is in case of a MM pickup-to-preamp when both the IC
and the preamp's input are too high capacitance.
Don't miss to read this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/68982-interconnect-cables-lies-myths.html
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