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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
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Old 4th April 2006, 08:02 AM   #36
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mayank
Hi Beppe:
It seems like me, you too like "more" bass in your music!
I have been very happy with the GFA-555 and would not hesitate recommending it to you.
The bass is powerful, clean and has character.
...
I agree with Chris, replacing the current transformer or removing the current limiters in your 545 is not a good idea. Also, moving from 100W to 200W may not give you a big increase.
In my den I use a Kenwood KA-3500 to power the Radian Research speakers - the bass reproduction at 35W is awesome.
I would recommend you look around for a good 555.
Good hunting.
Mayank
Dear Mr. Mayank,
thank you so much for your kind and helpful advice.
So I understand that a GFA-555 with the right choice of speakers can give an excellent bass response.
Thank you very much indeed.

Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 4th April 2006, 08:15 AM   #37
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by djk

A couple of points please.
1) The Adcom amps have NO current limiting.
2) The transformers are too small. The bass sounds 'muddy'.
3) If you add bypass caps to a 555 the bass will be 'tight', but you probably won't like it.
4) Buy an old 555, sell the transformer. Buy two 55-0-55 800VA toroids and stack them(the stock amp has a single 700VA unit). Add the bypass caps.
5) Buy a preamp with tone controls.
Dear Mr. Djk,

thank you very much for your kind and precious explanations
1) Very important information. I did not know this.
So the circuit is not a "bottle-neck" for current.
2) Actually in my 545 the single toroid looks quite humble.
I have even thought about replacing it with two 500VA from Nuvotem Talema, available in my city.
What do you think?
3) I like tight bass but also powerful and deep. Anyway I do not find the bass particularly loose even now.
4) Before buying a 555 I would be very interested in your opinion about modifying a 545.
It should have a 120W/8ohm. I think that what is lacking is indeed the current, because I had the opportunity to try a 50Watter/8ohm with high current and the bass had much more "authority".
I did not think about stacking them.
Very interesting idea also because free space inside is usually limited.
Could you give me some practical advice about stacking toroids?
I mean, what kind of material should I put between them and the case ? and also between one toroid and the other.
5) I am sorry but this is against my precepts (eh, eh, eh).

Thank you sincerely for your extremely kind and very valuable advice.
Now I understand that Adcom amps have some potential for good sound.
Thanks a lot again.

Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 4th April 2006, 08:22 AM   #38
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by infinia
Hi Beppe
I use dynaudio speakers with a single GFA-555 and drive the amp into clipping sometimes.
....
Dear Infinia,

I think you could find very interesting the post of Mr. Djk who is talking about your amp.
I am thinking about mods on Adcom.

Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 4th April 2006, 10:11 AM   #39
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Dear Mr. Djk,

In my present application of a single GFA-555, clipping was caused by limit of voltage on the rails not the current rating of the transformer. My understanding of the transformer in the 555 is that it's a 800VA toroid with independant windings for each channel. So for bridging it seems under rated as you pointed out. The dual transformer would help in bridge mode only. Then I fear for the 16 TO-3 transistors SOA ratings in the case of bridging into 4 (6) ohms.
No current limiting is a good thing in most cases for a robust amplifier design yes? I like the way my GFA-555 sounds in stock condition for bi amp for LF drivers. IMO any modifications would be minor to sonic performance but my ears are not that good anymore.
Have you had good results with extra transformer/bypass cap modifications to the old 555? I am aware of most modifcations to this amp in other threads in this forum with Mr. Pass's participation.
I also use a GFA-535 with dual transformers and it uses the same PCB as a GFA-545 minus a pair of output transistors. Very nice as well.
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Old 4th April 2006, 01:01 PM   #40
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Hi djk,
The 555 uses 0R82 emitter resistors. The voltage drop across those becomes high at peak currents. So no current limiting in a normal sense.

Driving this amp harder will blow the outputs in bridged mode. They will "see" a 2 ohm load. I seldom saw blown 555's unless there was a load fault or they were driving 4 ohms in bridge. There are driver transistor issues in these at high powers as well. If you are going to push it to the limit, you'd best choose another amplifier.

Now the 555II uses 0R22 emitter resistors and no current limiting. That amplifier may do a better job with a 4 ohm load.

-Chris
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Old 4th April 2006, 03:17 PM   #41
Mayank is offline Mayank  United States
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Chris:

The GFA-555 has a thermostat T1 which opens up whenever the temperatures goes above 85 degrees C and shuts off the bias to the amplifier.

Wouldn't that work as limiting over current when the amplifier is driven hard?

Rgds
Mayank
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Old 4th April 2006, 03:57 PM   #42
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Hi Mayank,
Yes, I love those thermals! Sometimes it's the peak current when they get hot that kills them. The thermals only help when the ventillation is poor.

-Chris
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Old 5th April 2006, 01:19 AM   #43
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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hi Chris,
Do you think it would be too risky to run two 555's bridged for my set up (6 ohm).
I don't think I would try to run it wide open (try to limit Vin max). Just looking for maybe 2-3 dB head room to keep away from clipping. say at Po=500W RMS max. Is there anything I could do to safely run bridged (4ohm)? Upgrade drivers/output devices Re's etc. Don't really want to lose my speakers under any conditions.
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Old 5th April 2006, 09:00 AM   #44
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I've run a bridged 555 into a speaker that measured 4 ohms DCR. It will do 900W into 4 ohms until it gets hot.

900W is about 25W per output device, about the maximum for the stock 150W parts.

The driver transistors will go first.

When driving 4 ohms in mono and you blow the fuses, the driver transistors will almost always blow.

MJE150XX will take care of that (this is the part originally specified by Nelson Pass).

I have replaced the stock 700VA toroid with a 1.8KVA E&I type before, it makes a world of difference. I have also used a pair of 1KVA toroids. Just stack them up with the provided washers and plates, with a longer bolt.

Talema makes nice toroids, I own a pair of 625VA models made in their USA plant. I'm not sure there is room in a 545 for a bigger transformer, but there is plenty of room in the 7" tall 555 case.

The dual mono supplies are non-optimum for bridged use, you're better off with a mono supply.

If you pound it hard with a beefed-up supply, be sure an hook up a pair of fans too.

It doesn't hurt to put in 250W ON Semiconductor outputs either.
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Old 5th April 2006, 09:05 AM   #45
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by djk
I've run a bridged 555 into a speaker that measured 4 ohms DCR.
It will do 900W into 4 ohms until it gets hot.
...
Dear Mr. Djk,

may I disturb you privately with an e-mail?
I would like very much to get a suggestion concerning the selection of a good but not very expensive high current power amp.
It is my recurrent nightmare.

Thank you so much for your extremely valuable messages.

Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 5th April 2006, 12:45 PM   #46
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Hi Infinia,
If you rebuild the amps as djk has suggested (and I agree 100% with him on this) the amplifier would be safer to run 4 ohm bridged. If you do not do this the drivers will fail and take out the outputs along with them. The speakers may be damaged in the process.

Understand that by upgrading the power supply you will have about 3~3.5 X the 4 ohm power of one channel. You don't want to see the distortion lights come on. You will need to increase the ventilation and fans may be part of this. Along with fans come dust build up. Do not fail to clean everything out from time to time.

You want to use MJ21195 and MJ21196 for the higher SOA ratings. Match them if you can. I wonder if you can get MJL3281 and MJL1302 to fit in as driver transistors. They would stand up better.

-Chris
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Old 5th April 2006, 06:53 PM   #47
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Thanks Chris and djk,
So to upgrade for 555 mkI bridged mode into 4 ohm
The changes are proposed as follows

Drivers = mje15030/31 drivers (mandatory)
Double 800VA toroids 55+55 Vac (or 1.5KVA single EI)
Re=0R33 5W (mandatory)
Outputs=Mj21195/96 (optional)
Inrush current limit =parallel 2 CL-30's shorted with 18A relay
Dual fans on outside HS if used in HD environment

stock 15KuF Caps OK
stock Diode bridge OK
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Old 5th April 2006, 07:30 PM   #48
Bare is online now Bare  Canada
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You guys... you get so involved with fixin what simply isn't worth owning let alone upgrading. Sure they can be brought up to a semblance of a current performer.. but why??
In the Used market there are Lotsa better sounding more capable units than old discredited Adcoms.. this Ain't 1988 any more.
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Old 5th April 2006, 08:01 PM   #49
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Sorry for a quick interruption. What are the opinions of runing a 555mkII 4r bridged with with ON MJ15024/25 as outputs? This is the only major change to the amp. (I think this one has a 800va trafo stock)

I may have enough to add another pair to each channel...is necessary??

regards...
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Old 5th April 2006, 08:36 PM   #50
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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hi Bare
OK I'll bite. What can I use instead of a 555 with better performance and at this price point?
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Old 5th April 2006, 08:38 PM   #51
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Quote:
Originally posted by mpmarino
Sorry for a quick interruption. What are the opinions of runing a 555mkII 4r bridged with with ON MJ15024/25 as outputs
The MJ15024/25 should drop right in, but the 555 was not a
great bridged amp.
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Old 6th April 2006, 01:57 AM   #52
mpmarino is offline mpmarino  United States
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Thanks a lot!

I popped those ONSEMIS in when I recv'd the amp with a blown side. I had no idea if they were suitable replacements but they seem to be fine, if not better than the tosh's. When I saw what peeps were getting for the originals I almost puked . This amp may<or>will be used for sub duty..no more.
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Old 6th April 2006, 10:04 PM   #53
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Is it best to pass (pun intended) on trying to get a pair of 555's to do bridge. Not sure what the failure mechanisms are but seems like alot of amps can smoke in bridge mode as well. It doesn't seem intuitive that adding double power transformers would make this any safer. any thoughts appreciated.
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Old 6th April 2006, 10:57 PM   #54
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Hi Infinia,
I have never been a fan of running amps in bridged mode. There are bigger amps available and you get way more mileage running one channel per woofer. That means adding a woofer in some cases.

I agree with Nelson's observation that the 555 is not a great amp in bridge mode. It wasn't designed for that duty. Besides, Adcom made the 565 as a mono amp.

All in all you can do a whole lot worse than these amps. Just use them as they were intended to be used.

-Chris
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Old 7th April 2006, 01:25 AM   #55
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Two things make it less that ideal for mono use, the dual mono supply, and the method of bridging.

The method of the 555 used for bridging is the best from a stability standpoint, but the worst from a sound standpoint. It would be fine for subwoofer use(I would strap the supply to mono too).
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Old 7th April 2006, 04:35 PM   #56
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Thanks for the replies Guys,
So no bridging the 555 even though the capability was designed into it.
I need to add the slow start circuit (inrush I limit) so at the same time maybe I could manage to change the drivers. If anybody could remember offhand. How involved would it be to change the driver transistors? I haven't peaked inside since i first bought it new. If I have to unsolder all the TO-3 leads I'll probably pass on that as well.
I have an idea for the slow start circuit. I have a SPDT 125Vdc 18A relay. The relay windings will be across both rails at the supply with a small series resistor and buck diode. The NO contacts shorting a small power thermistor in the primary circuit.
Nothing I have seen is simpler than that.
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Old 7th April 2006, 06:19 PM   #57
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Hi Infinia,
About bridging ... "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". One of the most misunderstood and misused features.

The driver and predriver transistors share a mounting bolt. The leads are soldered to posts standing off the PCB. So, no problem replacing them.

Use a fixed resistor for the surge resistor. There is no point in a thermistor at all. Otherwise, it's that simple.

-Chris
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Old 7th April 2006, 06:50 PM   #58
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by anatech
Hi Infinia,

Use a fixed resistor for the surge resistor. There is no point in a thermistor at all. Otherwise, it's that simple.

-Chris
I have the thermistors from a HP SMPS. So its not OK to use them? I like them because easier to mount and less to worry about too. Don't need no complex calculations for this mod. I like simple and safe.

How about 1R0 10W instead.
Regards
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Old 7th April 2006, 07:51 PM   #59
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Hi Infinia,
If you have them, go ahead and use them.

1R0 is too low. Common values are 2R2 (big amps) to 10R. What I like about a fixed resistor is that during a fault condition, if the relay drops out the resistor will burn out. Added safety. Your part will not probably, so the power is not interrupted.

-Chris
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Old 7th April 2006, 08:20 PM   #60
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I've repaired a monster reciever with 0R5 5W and the part goes faster than any correct fuse would. So I doubled that value for a swag. If you make R too big it can fail under normal conditions. *ell any resistance is better than stock yes.

BTW I love the smell of a cooking thermistor in the morning. It smells like relay failure.
&thanks for your help
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Old 7th April 2006, 08:40 PM   #61
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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GFA-555 parts upgrade/substitutions?
Hi Infinia,
If the really big amps use 2R2 and up, I don't think that is much of an issue. Never had one go in normal use. Mind you, they are 10W and 20W parts.

When the secondary DC comes up enough to pull in the relay, the surge resistor is shorted and can cool down. Remember that your max inrush current will be LINE VOLTAGE / SURGE RESISTOR + XFORMER DCR. The higher resistance is nicer to everything, including other units on the same circuit.

-Chris
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Old 7th April 2006, 09:12 PM   #62
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by anatech
Hi Infinia,
If the really big amps use 2R2 and up, I don't think that is much of an issue. Never had one go in normal use. Mind you, they are 10W and 20W parts.
Only if, and big if, it was designed correctly Not even an issue here with a big 20Watter.


Quote:
[i]When the secondary DC comes up enough to pull in the relay, the surge resistor is shorted and can cool down. Remember that your max inrush current will be LINE VOLTAGE / SURGE RESISTOR + XFORMER DCR. The higher resistance is nicer to everything, including other units on the same circuit.[/B]
you forgot + line source resistance which dominates (most homes) your eg when added Rsurge approaches zero (for really big amps).
anyhow I think we beat this horse enough.
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Old 25th April 2009, 08:04 PM   #63
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Default Adcom GFA 555 bias adj

Great thread here. I'm pretty active in some of the other forums, but found this thread because I'm in the middle of fixing a GFA 555 with a dead channel. So far looks like output transistor failure from the last owner pushing it hard in bridge mode. I've got an open/shorted Q-18 and an open reistor at R-25. Driver checks out fine.

I'm looking for the bias setting for this amp. It is wonderful that the schematic and parts list was posted, but what about the Sm settings, which I think consist only of bias.

Thanks a bunch!
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Old 25th April 2009, 10:50 PM   #64
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If the base of Q18 is shorted, the driver transistors MUST be replaced (even if they check fine).

Bias?

20mV across the emitter resistors is good.
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Old 26th April 2009, 12:21 AM   #65
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DJK, thanks for your reply and I agree, the drivers should be replaced as well.

Before reading your post, I briefly ran it up with my variac and the formerly dead channel now works but is not right, outputs on the repaired board are getting warm very fast. I haven't checked but I'm sure the bias is out of control.

Are the drivers the TO-126 units Q 9 and Q 10?
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Old 27th April 2009, 06:27 PM   #66
sgr100 is offline sgr100  United States
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Default GFA 555 channel repair

I have updated info with new issues if anyone is following along.

This all pertains to my failed left channel, the right channel is working fine and the bias is stable at 20 mV and the DC is a bit high at .45 mV, but acceptable for now.

I replaced both driver transistors, Q12 and Q11 which call for 2SD525 and 2SB595, with Onsemi MJE15030/31. After reading a few threads here, looks like MJE15032/33 may have been better choices, which I also have in stock. Any comment appreciated.

Anyway, I tested Q4 and Q7 out of circuit and they passed the diode test, so I reinstalled. I do not have any equipt. to test beyond a simple diode test.

Powered up again via dimbulb tester and the repaired channel is not right, runaway bias over 6 vdc and I get about 6.5 DC at the speaker terminals. The amp outputs on the repaired channel, but obviously things are not right.

I'm a great parts replacer, but not so good with theory. So if anyone wants to jump in with suggestions for my next move, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!
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Old 27th April 2009, 07:51 PM   #67
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Check the 0.82 ohm resistors on the Output emitters of the bad channel. You may have one/more short.

Rgds
Mayank
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Old 27th April 2009, 08:28 PM   #68
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Thanks for the reply. R-24 was open originally and I replaced that with Q-18. I just checked and the remaining emitters all measure around 1.0 ohm in circuit, so we are okay there.
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Old 27th April 2009, 10:40 PM   #69
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Hi:

As I understand, you replaced only *one* output transistor Q18 and the others Q17, Q19, Q20 are still "originals"? Ideally when one output transistor goes bad, one should replace all four. Did you find a replacement Toshiba 2SD424 for the Q18? I had once repaired a GFA-555 with bad outputs by using the Onsemi MJ15024/25 devices.

This may be tedious, but could help diagnose the source of trouble: Check the bias and DC at the speaker terminals by using only 1 pair of outputs (say Q17 and Q13) in the bad channel and temporarily desoldering the rest of the output transistors.

Rgds
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Old 27th April 2009, 11:59 PM   #70
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Mayank, yes, I know the outputs should be replaced in sets, but my work at this point is more in the diagnostic mode and once I make some progress, I will decide if I go with new Onsemi's or a set of original Toshiba's.

I do a lot of work on vintage receivers and have a decent supply of genuine Toshiba 2SB554/2SC424 outputs, so what I replaced was a known good original and not a Chinese fake.

Along the lines of your suggestion, I swapped the output board that I repaired with board 1 from the other channel. With the repaired board in the left channel, I get DC of .40 mV and I can run the Bias at spec, no problem. The output sounds fine and this has led me to believe that the problem is in the input/driver PC board.

I suspect the Q4-Q7 transistors, they did pass the diode test, so I'm not sure. I checked the resistors and diodes incircuit and they test the same as the other side. I'm guessing I have a bad transistor, but at this point I'm not sure how to proceed.
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