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Old 11th January 2021, 11:37 AM   #81
SSassen is offline SSassen  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by BesPav View Post
Hey, Sander, why don't you try this:
????????? ????????? + ???????
I couldn't resist, how's my Russian?

???????? ? ????????????, ????? ??????!
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Old 11th January 2021, 12:09 PM   #82
stanislav1957 is offline stanislav1957  Russian Federation
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Originally Posted by SSassen View Post
I couldn't resist, how's my Russian?

???????? ? ????????????, ????? ??????!
Very well, everything turned out clearly.
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Old 11th January 2021, 04:31 PM   #83
BesPav is offline BesPav  Russian Federation
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Originally Posted by SSassen View Post
I couldn't resist, how's my Russian?



Got it!
Try attached. Some dBs added at the same UGF.
Attached Images
File Type: png Tune.PNG (67.0 KB, 158 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip Lateralbal.zip (9.8 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by BesPav; 11th January 2021 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 11th January 2021, 06:22 PM   #84
SSassen is offline SSassen  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by BesPav View Post


Got it!
Try attached. Some dBs added at the same UGF.
Thanks! But these simulations fall apart when I run the amplifier in balanced mode, which really is a requirement for me.
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Old 11th January 2021, 07:35 PM   #85
Hans Polak is online now Hans Polak  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by SSassen View Post
I run the amplifier in balanced mode, which really is a requirement for me.
Pretty impressive performance, especially step response with high slew rate and zero overshoot.

Hans
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Old 11th January 2021, 07:38 PM   #86
SSassen is offline SSassen  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Hans Polak View Post
Pretty impressive performance, especially step response with high slew rate and zero overshoot.

Hans
Thanks Hans, you're very welcome to offer suggestions to make it even better. What's that I hear? Is that your fingers itching to poke and prod the design where it tickles?
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Last edited by SSassen; 11th January 2021 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 11th January 2021, 10:52 PM   #87
JeffYoung is offline JeffYoung  Ireland
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Simplicity and elegance, feedback wanted!
If you want to try and balance your CCS's you could try using ZTX753s for Q1, Q2 and Q5. Check the power dissipation, they might borderline in your VAS.
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Old 12th January 2021, 04:27 AM   #88
BesPav is offline BesPav  Russian Federation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSassen View Post
amplifier in balanced mode, which really is a requirement for me.
This is very bad idea to combine low-resistance input, high-voltage output and common-mode rejecting in one block.

First of.
Balanced straightly demands for precise balancing all signal path including PCB traces resistance, solder joint resistance, mechanical jacks resistance, wire resistance. Although some of them are out of your control and can't be redesigned in the right way. So the one possible way to workaroud this - is to have fairly high input impedance which in case will minimize all other imperfections.

Second of.
High voltage anyway will provide you with a higher currents, which in case will heat and disturbing resistances. But fairly precise resistances are the cornerstone of the common-mode rejecting. So the one possible way to workaround this - is to put dedicated differential receiver with a dedicated precise resistor network like LT5400.

Third of
Common mode rejecting are very demanding in modern conditions due to intrinsic ground-loop breaking if designed right way. I would forget about THD itself because most of the amplifier will an orders above and beyond of any speaker and no one can exain why ~120 dB feedback amplifier with measurable sounds audibly differ while different rail capacitors installed. Industry needs an another ruler.
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Old 12th January 2021, 07:30 AM   #89
SSassen is offline SSassen  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BesPav View Post
This is very bad idea to combine low-resistance input, high-voltage output and common-mode rejecting in one block.
I'm not worried, please allow me to explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BesPav View Post
First of.
Balanced straightly demands for precise balancing all signal path including PCB traces resistance, solder joint resistance, mechanical jacks resistance, wire resistance. Although some of them are out of your control and can't be redesigned in the right way. So the one possible way to workaroud this - is to have fairly high input impedance which in case will minimize all other imperfections.
If you look at the schematic once more it is clear that only the input stage is balanced, the rest of the amplifier is single ended. If I wanted to make the entire amplifier balanced it would be a bridged topology (like the ExtremA) but I don't see the benefits here, partly because of the output power requirement not requiring such a topology and the fact that I want to keep the design simple. Please take note that moving to a bridged topology not only means an additional output stage, but also circuitry to keep the common mode in check.

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Originally Posted by BesPav View Post
Second of.
High voltage anyway will provide you with a higher currents, which in case will heat and disturbing resistances. But fairly precise resistances are the cornerstone of the common-mode rejecting. So the one possible way to workaround this - is to put dedicated differential receiver with a dedicated precise resistor network like LT5400.
There's no need, the input LTP is the only thing balanced about this design. If I wanted to improve on the CMR I could use a simple dual opamp at the input configured as a instrumentation amplifier. If I opted for that I would also choose to share the gain (20x) among the opamp and the discrete amplifier to further reduce THD+N.

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Originally Posted by BesPav View Post
Third of
Common mode rejecting are very demanding in modern conditions due to intrinsic ground-loop breaking if designed right way. I would forget about THD itself because most of the amplifier will an orders above and beyond of any speaker and no one can exain why ~120 dB feedback amplifier with measurable sounds audibly differ while different rail capacitors installed. Industry needs an another ruler.
PCB design is something I'm not worried about, nor CMR issue, one continuous ground plane usually removes most of the issues to begin with.
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Old 12th January 2021, 08:10 AM   #90
jan.didden is offline jan.didden  Europe
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Originally Posted by BesPav View Post
Balanced straightly demands for precise balancing all signal path including PCB traces resistance, solder joint resistance, mechanical jacks resistance, wire resistance.
I don't see the need for that. There is no need that both outputs are exactly identical in all respects. If you have a pos phase and neg phase output that are of good quality and reasonably close in gain, that's all you need.

Jan
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