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having different amplifiers often implies a different sound signature and you might be able to choose, through trial and error, which amplifier you prefer for driving each frequency range. It often seems people choose class A amplifiers for the tweeter ( for good reason ) and class D for the subwoofer (for good reason ). For some people, they may simply prefer to have the same amplifier on all of the drivers. I don’t see a problem with either approach, I think it’s a matter of taste.
@X
i think that the potentiometer only works on nonHD version
@pelanj
i'm not chasing low Watt usage, 1kW is not an issue for me
@pblossom
i choose HD version because i read many post regarding noise issue on 2x4 version and HD has higher snr. I will also use cdp rca output to dcb1 and feeds HD.
@Bigun
audiophiles even said that they will not combine SS for bass and tube for fullrange because of different harmonic profile. just imagine a piano sound reproduced by SS and Tube (they said) but this is out of my interest. with PeeCeeBee i have opportunity to use same design for all 4 channels.
my setup that will be tested on this weekend, still waiting for 4 rca cables and several meters of speaker cable. my first observation will be :
- no hum/noise occur
- enough power from 100W class ab for 21" subwoofer
- basic crossover setup wit Harsh
if i have enough time maybe testing basic measurements
i think that the potentiometer only works on nonHD version
@pelanj
i'm not chasing low Watt usage, 1kW is not an issue for me
@pblossom
i choose HD version because i read many post regarding noise issue on 2x4 version and HD has higher snr. I will also use cdp rca output to dcb1 and feeds HD.
@Bigun
audiophiles even said that they will not combine SS for bass and tube for fullrange because of different harmonic profile. just imagine a piano sound reproduced by SS and Tube (they said) but this is out of my interest. with PeeCeeBee i have opportunity to use same design for all 4 channels.
my setup that will be tested on this weekend, still waiting for 4 rca cables and several meters of speaker cable. my first observation will be :
- no hum/noise occur
- enough power from 100W class ab for 21" subwoofer
- basic crossover setup wit Harsh
if i have enough time maybe testing basic measurements
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Gadut, I somehow thought that you have not bought the MiniDSPs yet - that is why I suggested the ones by Thomann. And the point I was trying to make is that even with high efficiency speakers, the DSPs are not the source of noise or a sound quality bottle neck. I should have been clearer on that
I think your speakers would be fine even with different amps. My workshop system is nice and efficient, but never could make it into a living room. Your system might be inefficient, but looks 100 times better and I bet it sounds nice, too
I think your speakers would be fine even with different amps. My workshop system is nice and efficient, but never could make it into a living room. Your system might be inefficient, but looks 100 times better and I bet it sounds nice, too
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Joined 2009
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This is my thinking too, I'm considering a miniDSP 4-way project (gulp - seems rather a lot of work) and I would build a multi-channel amp using the same basic amplifier for each driver.
@cumbb & billshuv
calm guys, this hobby is for fun. type of capacitor/resistor/transistor, cables, connectors, tin type etc were listed on my journey years ago when i started to get serious in diyaudio. but now things get different, i don't think of small parts but more to overall overview.
I had tried different combinations of fullrange, now it's time for multiway but i'm not interested on passive crossover.
btw i have finished but untested LXmini kit, this was supposed to be contender to 2x4HD but 2 way OB will be pending. i find this 4 ways much interesting and more challenging, it will increase my knowledge and experience
calm guys, this hobby is for fun. type of capacitor/resistor/transistor, cables, connectors, tin type etc were listed on my journey years ago when i started to get serious in diyaudio. but now things get different, i don't think of small parts but more to overall overview.
I had tried different combinations of fullrange, now it's time for multiway but i'm not interested on passive crossover.
btw i have finished but untested LXmini kit, this was supposed to be contender to 2x4HD but 2 way OB will be pending. i find this 4 ways much interesting and more challenging, it will increase my knowledge and experience
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Same for me !... we are travelling similar roads.
I have recently decided on the approach to my 4-way speaker including choice of the drivers and more or less the cabinet. And I've picked out the amplifier choice (which I will design a new multi-channel dedicated PCB for, it will be my first update to my TGM8 amplifier). It's exciting to be moving on, to explore a new area of this hobby (active multi-way) that I had purposely avoided for at least a decade. I've yet to decide on the exact miniDSP solution.
For some unfortunate reason, I seem to do my speaker projects in the winter months. This means wood-working in a garage when it's snow outside. For this project I may invest in some form of insulation for the garage door and a source of heat. It will be my Autumn project to sort out a place to do the work.
I'm glad to have a fellow DIY'er on a similar path - I will follow along your project.
yesterday I played hours on my music collection, tried Harsch XO setup by tuning with ears. preliminary results is satisfactory, so many Fc point that i tried and with dsp engine it's so easy to change and hear the result immediately.
notes for PRV 5MR450 lover, no matter how hard i tried to use it as Fullrange, once i turn on Beston ribbon then there is no way to force PRV for high frequencies. Because i have sinusitis, distorsion or maybe beaming is very annoying for me, setting me up PRV to work below 5kHz is very pleasant to my ears eventhough on very high volume and let the ribbon works as it's best on > 5kHz
now it's time for proper design, I measure each driver individually and add PeQ to flatten freq response up to 2 octave above Fc and remove nasty peak on higher octave.
because this is my first measurement, I start with 21" subwoofer. any insights on the measurement result?
another question, what is microphone distance recommended for Midrange and Tweeter for individual driver measurement? for 12" i think i still can use near field method because it will be used below 500Hz
notes for PRV 5MR450 lover, no matter how hard i tried to use it as Fullrange, once i turn on Beston ribbon then there is no way to force PRV for high frequencies. Because i have sinusitis, distorsion or maybe beaming is very annoying for me, setting me up PRV to work below 5kHz is very pleasant to my ears eventhough on very high volume and let the ribbon works as it's best on > 5kHz
now it's time for proper design, I measure each driver individually and add PeQ to flatten freq response up to 2 octave above Fc and remove nasty peak on higher octave.
because this is my first measurement, I start with 21" subwoofer. any insights on the measurement result?
another question, what is microphone distance recommended for Midrange and Tweeter for individual driver measurement? for 12" i think i still can use near field method because it will be used below 500Hz
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i just found coaxial splitter up to 3 output by Lundahl, this is very interesting instead of toslink splitter. 2x4HD is also capable for i2s output which can be connected to your better dac and get nice midrange and treble. while for bass still can use minidsp analog out
i think this will be the ultimate solution since dsp is working all on digital area
Digital audio transformers • Lundahl Transformers
i think this will be the ultimate solution since dsp is working all on digital area
Digital audio transformers • Lundahl Transformers
Objectivly there is no real technical issue (but mabye poor shielded SMPS's that cause noise on your AC and not enough filtering/regulation to get rid of it).
Subjectivly, the mix and match of amps can be not your taste, as almost all amps have a sound to them and some you may like and others not.
BTW, i sometimes use a Marantz PM5004 (AB class transistor amp) on sub and a Prima Luna Prologue 4 (AB1 class tube amp) on top with my WAW system to get mmore volume, and the CR is a Minidsp 2x4 HD. But this is my homeparty setup. When listening music in small groups (with less volume), i use a passive crossover and only the tube amp. But that homeparty setup works and sounds very good, even with 2 different amps
Subjectivly, the mix and match of amps can be not your taste, as almost all amps have a sound to them and some you may like and others not.
BTW, i sometimes use a Marantz PM5004 (AB class transistor amp) on sub and a Prima Luna Prologue 4 (AB1 class tube amp) on top with my WAW system to get mmore volume, and the CR is a Minidsp 2x4 HD. But this is my homeparty setup. When listening music in small groups (with less volume), i use a passive crossover and only the tube amp. But that homeparty setup works and sounds very good, even with 2 different amps
I bought qnty 2 x miniDSP 2x4 (non HD) a long time ago to do a dual 3 way speaker with a separate subwoofer. Never got around to it because found that I like the sound of my passive 1st order crossover so much. I like Harsch XO but feel that passive first order transient perfect is even better.
Also, let’s me use my best Class A amps and compare amps. With a DSP solution you never know if your amps are doing the best that they can do. Having said that, when I was using miniDSP (even the non HD), I was never unhappy with the sound quality. It was quite good. Actually better than many other commercial systems I listened to.
I just saw these Toslink repeater/splitters. Not expensive at all. Very cool actually. I may get them as I am making a new custom 8 ch DSP with nice AKM ADCs and DACs and option to have Toslink in/out and BT option. Going with ADAU1452 and SigmaDSP Studio for programming. The Eval module sounds great and very nice but custom implementation will have better DACs and more power output balanced opamps.
Here is the EVM, a great piece of DSP hardware in its own right. At $250 is kind of high but it is 8 ch out and 4ch in and has TOSLINK, I2S, Balanced analog in, 2 analog programmable “pots”, USB, SPI, and boot EPROM if needed. Lots of capability. You will also find that it has a vast DSP library of things you can do in software. Easy to program with GUI.
Also, let’s me use my best Class A amps and compare amps. With a DSP solution you never know if your amps are doing the best that they can do. Having said that, when I was using miniDSP (even the non HD), I was never unhappy with the sound quality. It was quite good. Actually better than many other commercial systems I listened to.
I just saw these Toslink repeater/splitters. Not expensive at all. Very cool actually. I may get them as I am making a new custom 8 ch DSP with nice AKM ADCs and DACs and option to have Toslink in/out and BT option. Going with ADAU1452 and SigmaDSP Studio for programming. The Eval module sounds great and very nice but custom implementation will have better DACs and more power output balanced opamps.
Here is the EVM, a great piece of DSP hardware in its own right. At $250 is kind of high but it is 8 ch out and 4ch in and has TOSLINK, I2S, Balanced analog in, 2 analog programmable “pots”, USB, SPI, and boot EPROM if needed. Lots of capability. You will also find that it has a vast DSP library of things you can do in software. Easy to program with GUI.
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@waxx
i have tried analog input from : diy AD1865 dac, cd player analog out, usb soundcard, laptop headphone out and with my first day of engagement with this dsp, I focus more on technical dsp things. the last headphone out is more usable because i can send pink noise for measurements while changing dsp setup at the same time
@X
have you tried i2s output from minidsp to your dac? with analog input, i agree there will be sound quality degradation due to multiple ad/da conversion. but if we keep digital domain from source to dsp, i will assume the quality is maintained. let's keep out digital issue/bit perfect here
regarding 1st order xo, maybe you can try to compare digital xo vs cap filter, even though this will lead into another option filter of using Toshiba jfet
there are many dsp solution out there, but i'm more to hardware guy instead of software guy, really not interested to program my own script. database analysis is my work routine everyday so let's keep this audio hobby different
i know you have many amplifier and design your own style, keeping same topology for all 3/4 channel might be good option, just differentiate them with different bias/voltage supply
i have tried analog input from : diy AD1865 dac, cd player analog out, usb soundcard, laptop headphone out and with my first day of engagement with this dsp, I focus more on technical dsp things. the last headphone out is more usable because i can send pink noise for measurements while changing dsp setup at the same time
@X
have you tried i2s output from minidsp to your dac? with analog input, i agree there will be sound quality degradation due to multiple ad/da conversion. but if we keep digital domain from source to dsp, i will assume the quality is maintained. let's keep out digital issue/bit perfect here
regarding 1st order xo, maybe you can try to compare digital xo vs cap filter, even though this will lead into another option filter of using Toshiba jfet
there are many dsp solution out there, but i'm more to hardware guy instead of software guy, really not interested to program my own script. database analysis is my work routine everyday so let's keep this audio hobby different
i know you have many amplifier and design your own style, keeping same topology for all 3/4 channel might be good option, just differentiate them with different bias/voltage supply
finally settled on win-win solution for my build, previously i insisted to stay active with minidsp and find better way to improve it. but now i decided to build 1 passive speaker design which is Elsinore and keep my OB system with default minidsp
i can say using 4 different amplifiers should not be a problem, the issues are more to gain matching because all my amplifier have different gain and each driver has different sensitivity too.
previously i used 3way commercial speaker for watching bluray in stereo mode. now with active OB, i was surprised because the dialog is more centered. never thought OB can give this solid dialog where it was blurred in my previous 3way. i don't think any need for multichannel anymore
indeed 21" OB can not provide strong attack bass on movie, but with my dual-opposed 12" subwoofer with lpf @48Hz, it really helps to give bass sensation. can't wait to build 2nd subwoofer
i can say using 4 different amplifiers should not be a problem, the issues are more to gain matching because all my amplifier have different gain and each driver has different sensitivity too.
previously i used 3way commercial speaker for watching bluray in stereo mode. now with active OB, i was surprised because the dialog is more centered. never thought OB can give this solid dialog where it was blurred in my previous 3way. i don't think any need for multichannel anymore
indeed 21" OB can not provide strong attack bass on movie, but with my dual-opposed 12" subwoofer with lpf @48Hz, it really helps to give bass sensation. can't wait to build 2nd subwoofer
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