This is going to take a while.............lots of pics and explaining but, here goes.
I have 6-EV QRX 153/75 boxes that are my "C" PA and ballroom rig. A good money maker, but it's gone thru lots of tweeks since I've owned it. The sound was harsh (typical EV) to me at first but a fair amount of processor EQ (DC-ONE) and it was live-able. I lost most of the 15's at an outdoor event early this year and so started the journey of this rebuild.
The 15" loss was attributed to the DL-15 frame "cutting" the surrounds on 5 of the 6 drivers. On deep excursions of the 15", the M surround fabric would be stretched across the relatively sharp edge of the frame at the surround perch. Instead of reconing them all (had to work early the next week) I bought Eminence KappaLite 3015's.
I had hoped these would have more output in the 100-500 range, but they were about the same sensitivity and resonance as the DL's. The Lo-mid WAS clearer.
The solution I went with was to add 6-single 15" boxes (3 per side) for more low-mid and getting the boxes stacked higher as well.
Anybody who uses these boxes know they fire downward at a 10 degree angle. Great in a ballroom when flown, not so great when stacked in some instances.
The same drivers (3015's) were used in a similar alignment as the 153. 2.8 cuFt, 2x 4" ports, their medium box alignment.
This addition required a re-power so I went with a PL-380 per side. Channel 1- all 15's, Channel 2- all the 8's and ND-6's. The sole amp handles one side of the PA with ease (3-153/75's, 3-115 boxes) and draws only 7A when the PA's at 120Db at 1M, A weighted, slow scale.
About this time I pulled a 8" horn out of the box and was quite shocked. The plastic horn was warping badly at all the fastener points, and there was NO phase plug. Just an Eminence sealed-back 8" slapped onto the horn opening.
As I looked into this further I found the Eminence driver they used (Alpha 8MRA) had a FS of 514hz! Dead at the start of the passband! Couldn't have all this.............not at all.
I knew jumping into this would be expensive and a lot of trouble.
I should say "a lot of trouble" is southern for a lot of work.
The final replacement driver I chose was a B&C 8PE21. Good power handling, FS way down low (87hz), It just needed MAJOR construction to make it work on the factory horn.
This is where the pics begin:
I have 6-EV QRX 153/75 boxes that are my "C" PA and ballroom rig. A good money maker, but it's gone thru lots of tweeks since I've owned it. The sound was harsh (typical EV) to me at first but a fair amount of processor EQ (DC-ONE) and it was live-able. I lost most of the 15's at an outdoor event early this year and so started the journey of this rebuild.
The 15" loss was attributed to the DL-15 frame "cutting" the surrounds on 5 of the 6 drivers. On deep excursions of the 15", the M surround fabric would be stretched across the relatively sharp edge of the frame at the surround perch. Instead of reconing them all (had to work early the next week) I bought Eminence KappaLite 3015's.
I had hoped these would have more output in the 100-500 range, but they were about the same sensitivity and resonance as the DL's. The Lo-mid WAS clearer.
The solution I went with was to add 6-single 15" boxes (3 per side) for more low-mid and getting the boxes stacked higher as well.
Anybody who uses these boxes know they fire downward at a 10 degree angle. Great in a ballroom when flown, not so great when stacked in some instances.
The same drivers (3015's) were used in a similar alignment as the 153. 2.8 cuFt, 2x 4" ports, their medium box alignment.
This addition required a re-power so I went with a PL-380 per side. Channel 1- all 15's, Channel 2- all the 8's and ND-6's. The sole amp handles one side of the PA with ease (3-153/75's, 3-115 boxes) and draws only 7A when the PA's at 120Db at 1M, A weighted, slow scale.
About this time I pulled a 8" horn out of the box and was quite shocked. The plastic horn was warping badly at all the fastener points, and there was NO phase plug. Just an Eminence sealed-back 8" slapped onto the horn opening.
As I looked into this further I found the Eminence driver they used (Alpha 8MRA) had a FS of 514hz! Dead at the start of the passband! Couldn't have all this.............not at all.
I knew jumping into this would be expensive and a lot of trouble.
I should say "a lot of trouble" is southern for a lot of work.
The final replacement driver I chose was a B&C 8PE21. Good power handling, FS way down low (87hz), It just needed MAJOR construction to make it work on the factory horn.
This is where the pics begin:
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Pics of Phasing plug
I knew I couldn't just slap the new 8" driver to the existing horn. Besides being physically impossible, the horn flange needed strengthening.
A heat gun, clamps and a large SS plate flattened the warped flange.
I cut a 10" x 10" 13ply square and put a 3" hole-saw opening in the center.
A 1/2" flushing router bit in a router table enlarged that hole to the horn opening
shape. The odd octagon shape of the B & C is shown next to the Eminence.
I knew this would make finding a back cap difficult. I really didn't have room to fabricate one from wood and the speaker cabinet narrows a lot where the handles
are in the box.
I knew I couldn't just slap the new 8" driver to the existing horn. Besides being physically impossible, the horn flange needed strengthening.
A heat gun, clamps and a large SS plate flattened the warped flange.
I cut a 10" x 10" 13ply square and put a 3" hole-saw opening in the center.
A 1/2" flushing router bit in a router table enlarged that hole to the horn opening
shape. The odd octagon shape of the B & C is shown next to the Eminence.
I knew this would make finding a back cap difficult. I really didn't have room to fabricate one from wood and the speaker cabinet narrows a lot where the handles
are in the box.
Attachments
Aperiodic Wave Guide build
The biggest problem I heard with the factory horn not having a phase plug was it's "beaming" on center and the associated phasing when the boxes are arrayed in the triad array I use the most. I went with a center rib to help stiffen the horn itself and a rear center dividing plug. Those had to be in 2 pieces. Then I designed the remaining phasing plug in 2 separate L/R hemispheres. These were most difficult to make and get identical shapes (12 required).
The biggest problem I heard with the factory horn not having a phase plug was it's "beaming" on center and the associated phasing when the boxes are arrayed in the triad array I use the most. I went with a center rib to help stiffen the horn itself and a rear center dividing plug. Those had to be in 2 pieces. Then I designed the remaining phasing plug in 2 separate L/R hemispheres. These were most difficult to make and get identical shapes (12 required).
Attachments
Back Cap and speaker Standoff
Ah, the finale.
The back cap is a deep Stainless Steel salad bowl off Amazon.
I didn't want the speaker shearing off the screws if the box got dropped, so I made a speaker standoff 3/4" thick. That also gave me a way to get the wires into the driver chamber in a airtight way. The stainless got some air filter (polyester) acoustic treatment and since it was quite thin metal and wanted to ring, a damping square of 13ply (4 x 4) screwed and urethane'd to the back of the bowl solved that.
This is a very intense woodworking project and isn't for a beginner. There are lots of photos of jigs and table saw cuts that would not be of interest to most folks, only "sawdust heads". I'll be glad to share those with whoever is interested.
The mids are way smoother at low and high volume and I can run the EQ flat now and simply EQ for the mic/singer. The boxes array well without the comb-filtering I had before. There are still small destructive interference lobes but they are subtle and you have to be critically listening to hear them.
Was it worth it? Like I said, this PA makes covering a ballroom a lead pipe cinch. 3- QRX's, 3- 115's, the flybar, and a 1/4 ton motor are just at 500#.
150 degree coverage, 120dB capable at 100z and up, and 500#?
It was worth it. Yes.
I'm not doing this again anytime soon though.................
Ah, the finale.
The back cap is a deep Stainless Steel salad bowl off Amazon.
I didn't want the speaker shearing off the screws if the box got dropped, so I made a speaker standoff 3/4" thick. That also gave me a way to get the wires into the driver chamber in a airtight way. The stainless got some air filter (polyester) acoustic treatment and since it was quite thin metal and wanted to ring, a damping square of 13ply (4 x 4) screwed and urethane'd to the back of the bowl solved that.
This is a very intense woodworking project and isn't for a beginner. There are lots of photos of jigs and table saw cuts that would not be of interest to most folks, only "sawdust heads". I'll be glad to share those with whoever is interested.
The mids are way smoother at low and high volume and I can run the EQ flat now and simply EQ for the mic/singer. The boxes array well without the comb-filtering I had before. There are still small destructive interference lobes but they are subtle and you have to be critically listening to hear them.
Was it worth it? Like I said, this PA makes covering a ballroom a lead pipe cinch. 3- QRX's, 3- 115's, the flybar, and a 1/4 ton motor are just at 500#.
150 degree coverage, 120dB capable at 100z and up, and 500#?
It was worth it. Yes.
I'm not doing this again anytime soon though.................
Attachments
Testing and measurements, final thoughts, last call..........
I should probably add this is just the L/R cluster. 99% of the time I run subs on the center channel or an Aux of the M-32, so an ensemble of powered 18's (QSC 181's) go out with this rig. How many is dependent on the style of music.
Here's a pic of the dB meter during testing. The amp is hi-passed at 100z and the meter was still in the green LED's with this measurement. Measured amp draw was 7 amps at 120V RMS. Program was music, not pink noise.
Each NL-4 at the amp measures 2.4 ohms electrically on the lows and the highs.
Each side of the PA gets a single 10Ga. NL-4 cable with metal Neutrik 50A connectors.
All the short jumpers are 90 degree and can't fall loose.
Never though Class D would sound that good. I was wrong.
Thanks Bob.
I should probably add this is just the L/R cluster. 99% of the time I run subs on the center channel or an Aux of the M-32, so an ensemble of powered 18's (QSC 181's) go out with this rig. How many is dependent on the style of music.
Here's a pic of the dB meter during testing. The amp is hi-passed at 100z and the meter was still in the green LED's with this measurement. Measured amp draw was 7 amps at 120V RMS. Program was music, not pink noise.
Each NL-4 at the amp measures 2.4 ohms electrically on the lows and the highs.
Each side of the PA gets a single 10Ga. NL-4 cable with metal Neutrik 50A connectors.
All the short jumpers are 90 degree and can't fall loose.
Never though Class D would sound that good. I was wrong.
Thanks Bob.
Attachments
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Great article. It never fails to surprise me how little actual engineering goes into some of these relatively expensive professional speaker systems, I would have though you would get much better than DJ grade drivers(3" CD excepted) in a box that retails for around $2500 but looks like they just threw a bunch of processing at it.. explains why they say the black box is not optional with these things.
My thoughts exactly.....
Hi conanski,
Same thing I thought.............I had high hopes when I got them.
I got them on a super deal where a guy was downsizing his rig, so they weren't used much, had the covers, and came with a DC-One. Couldn't say no to the price. It sort-of looks like EV engineers were under the gun time-wise on this design, or the accountants won in the meeting, or they were very unsure how well this box would sell.
When I took my NEXO boxes apart (14 years ago) to see what "went-in-to-them" I was quite astounded how detailed they got on the internals. Before I bought that Alpha rig, I used to build my own speakers. Nexo just shamed me into retiring the Unisaw........there was no way I could ever best that construction or that amazing controller.
In my old age I want to buy American, so some of that went into the decision, as well as the price. The rest of the box (cabinet, crossover, flyware) is just fine. The mid-driver is loud, just has a lot of HONK to it.
The HF driver is where some coin was spent, true. The LF kinda' ticked me off with that sharp edge on the frame, that's a failure waiting to happen. No way QC should let that frame go out that way.
It's one of those "mechanic's specials" speakers I think. If you're gonna' drive the rig hard, you're going to get your hands dirty. Anything less than the speed limit, you're OK.
I'm putting up another pic to show how I arrived at the shapes in the horn throat.
I figured x-max times 3 for distance spacing from the cone of these shapes. That was just in case any LF just happened to get to the mid-driver.
Some design I've done was just guessing at what looked "right" and the materials I have available. I suppose if I could form fiberglass as easily as I can saw wood, and done a ton more research, the forms would have been different
in the throat. All told, I've spent about 2 weeks in the shop on this little project.
There were some other options, RCF makes a banging horn (H6000) and their sealed-back line array driver (MR8N301) was one option, but I'm not really a "sling-money-at-it-til-it-gives" guy. I'd rather find out some stuff the hard way, and learn along the way.
And, that move would have cost nearly $2,700.00.
Hi conanski,
Same thing I thought.............I had high hopes when I got them.
I got them on a super deal where a guy was downsizing his rig, so they weren't used much, had the covers, and came with a DC-One. Couldn't say no to the price. It sort-of looks like EV engineers were under the gun time-wise on this design, or the accountants won in the meeting, or they were very unsure how well this box would sell.
When I took my NEXO boxes apart (14 years ago) to see what "went-in-to-them" I was quite astounded how detailed they got on the internals. Before I bought that Alpha rig, I used to build my own speakers. Nexo just shamed me into retiring the Unisaw........there was no way I could ever best that construction or that amazing controller.
In my old age I want to buy American, so some of that went into the decision, as well as the price. The rest of the box (cabinet, crossover, flyware) is just fine. The mid-driver is loud, just has a lot of HONK to it.
The HF driver is where some coin was spent, true. The LF kinda' ticked me off with that sharp edge on the frame, that's a failure waiting to happen. No way QC should let that frame go out that way.
It's one of those "mechanic's specials" speakers I think. If you're gonna' drive the rig hard, you're going to get your hands dirty. Anything less than the speed limit, you're OK.
I'm putting up another pic to show how I arrived at the shapes in the horn throat.
I figured x-max times 3 for distance spacing from the cone of these shapes. That was just in case any LF just happened to get to the mid-driver.
Some design I've done was just guessing at what looked "right" and the materials I have available. I suppose if I could form fiberglass as easily as I can saw wood, and done a ton more research, the forms would have been different
in the throat. All told, I've spent about 2 weeks in the shop on this little project.
There were some other options, RCF makes a banging horn (H6000) and their sealed-back line array driver (MR8N301) was one option, but I'm not really a "sling-money-at-it-til-it-gives" guy. I'd rather find out some stuff the hard way, and learn along the way.
And, that move would have cost nearly $2,700.00.
Attachments
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I reconed some Dl15s last year so I know what you mean about the frames, but these are lowend drivers IMO.. I had assumed all QRx boxes would have the EVX drivers like the subs. People slag on Eminence drivers but those neo Kappa/Delta drivers are a work of art.. I have some DeltaLite 2512s in some home brew tops i built a couple year ago and I have never had any problems with durability with this brand.. when the drivers are used within their limitations of course.
That is interesting about the phase plug, it's a relatively small piece but the shape isn't simple so creating a mold to make copies makes sense especially when you want quantities. Did you orient that vertically in the horn? Does it improve response in the both horizontal and vertical planes or did you measure that?
That is interesting about the phase plug, it's a relatively small piece but the shape isn't simple so creating a mold to make copies makes sense especially when you want quantities. Did you orient that vertically in the horn? Does it improve response in the both horizontal and vertical planes or did you measure that?
shapes
Yep, I like the Kappalites, very quick, high BL drivers. They were serious when they engineered those drivers and pulled out the stops to go more world class
and compete with the Italians. Those drivers are just jewelry-like, especially 18Sound's speakers.
The vertical orientation came from not wanting to get into their 10 degree down-fire horn shape, AND it's just easier to do vertical.
I realized I could make the situation a whole lot worse if I didn't keep it simple.
Measuring a single box and taking dB readings in the coverage pattern it was pretty obvious there was about a 2dB on-center hot spot about 10 degrees wide up close (within 20' of the box). I did that outdoors with a 100db pink noise level, mostly at that 20' distance from the box. I'd noticed the hot-spot in ballrooms before, but had no opportunity (time) to SMARRT it with any accuracy.
Then, with the grills off the boxes and looking at/listening to the array, I could see two different 8" cones at the same time (the way the factory had it). And I could point a laser into the opening and hit quite a few spots on the 8" cones (left hemisphere, dust dome, right hemisphere) I was hearing at the same time. It was at that exact spot the phase problem was at it's worse (destructive interference).
I presumed there were many different arrival times in that spot causing the problem and figured if I could move the summation point further out into the horn throat, that issue would be mitigated a lot.
I also realized the Eminence driver was VERY efficient (FS of 514Hz) and a phase plug would give me some lost efficiency BACK in that passband.
Measurements now show I'm about 2 dB LESS sensitive than with the old factory driver, but I was making 6-8dB cuts in the processor graphic to try and lose the "awk" between 500 and 1K.
Since I split the horn vertically, the vertical response shouldn't change much.
I hope not, the horns summed well in that regard.
Listening to the single finished prototype (last week) beside an unmodded factory box, it was way smoother in the 500 to 1K range with pink noise, music and a mic'd vocal (mine).
I'll use the PA for a NewYears party this Thursday. I'll see............it will be driven hard.
The shapes I used were quite hard to make duplicates of. The prototype was one thing to decide on, making 6 or 12 exact duplicate parts of one another was what puts the difficulty of this project up a notch. It was WAY time consuming, and I've worked wood for a long time and have an extensive shop.
And yes, Baltic Birch is dense and hard as heck. Requires horsepower, some sharp carbide tools, and a lot of sandpaper.
And determination to keep your fingers.................
Yep, I like the Kappalites, very quick, high BL drivers. They were serious when they engineered those drivers and pulled out the stops to go more world class
and compete with the Italians. Those drivers are just jewelry-like, especially 18Sound's speakers.
The vertical orientation came from not wanting to get into their 10 degree down-fire horn shape, AND it's just easier to do vertical.
I realized I could make the situation a whole lot worse if I didn't keep it simple.
Measuring a single box and taking dB readings in the coverage pattern it was pretty obvious there was about a 2dB on-center hot spot about 10 degrees wide up close (within 20' of the box). I did that outdoors with a 100db pink noise level, mostly at that 20' distance from the box. I'd noticed the hot-spot in ballrooms before, but had no opportunity (time) to SMARRT it with any accuracy.
Then, with the grills off the boxes and looking at/listening to the array, I could see two different 8" cones at the same time (the way the factory had it). And I could point a laser into the opening and hit quite a few spots on the 8" cones (left hemisphere, dust dome, right hemisphere) I was hearing at the same time. It was at that exact spot the phase problem was at it's worse (destructive interference).
I presumed there were many different arrival times in that spot causing the problem and figured if I could move the summation point further out into the horn throat, that issue would be mitigated a lot.
I also realized the Eminence driver was VERY efficient (FS of 514Hz) and a phase plug would give me some lost efficiency BACK in that passband.
Measurements now show I'm about 2 dB LESS sensitive than with the old factory driver, but I was making 6-8dB cuts in the processor graphic to try and lose the "awk" between 500 and 1K.
Since I split the horn vertically, the vertical response shouldn't change much.
I hope not, the horns summed well in that regard.
Listening to the single finished prototype (last week) beside an unmodded factory box, it was way smoother in the 500 to 1K range with pink noise, music and a mic'd vocal (mine).
I'll use the PA for a NewYears party this Thursday. I'll see............it will be driven hard.
The shapes I used were quite hard to make duplicates of. The prototype was one thing to decide on, making 6 or 12 exact duplicate parts of one another was what puts the difficulty of this project up a notch. It was WAY time consuming, and I've worked wood for a long time and have an extensive shop.
And yes, Baltic Birch is dense and hard as heck. Requires horsepower, some sharp carbide tools, and a lot of sandpaper.
And determination to keep your fingers.................
Attachments
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Measurements and Observations
All 6 boxes are finished and listening tests were done today.
Some pleasant surprises:
Very smooth arraying, the boxes are much more happy with one another side-by-side forming the array. It's not a "hot-mess" at the box junctions any more.
AND, the volume spread per passband was less than a 1/4 dB between the HF horn and mid-horn (peak-hold measurements). The 15" was 2 dB down at 104dB. This was with pink noise and program material played at -20dB on the amp (the first green LED fully lit) and the x-over was the 500Hz factory preset on the DC-One. The dB meter was about 3' from the box.
The next pleasant surprise.........the horn dispersion has narrowed. At 10' from the array, as I moved past being parallel to the box edge, the meter dropped off smoothly and at 10 degrees off parallel, it was 10dB down while on axis with the horn, and the 15" off.
Didn't get pics of that, but I feel so much better now about the project and the box itself.
The DH-7 has proven itself as well as the Kappalite, now the mids are good.
Time to go make money................Happy New Year!
All 6 boxes are finished and listening tests were done today.
Some pleasant surprises:
Very smooth arraying, the boxes are much more happy with one another side-by-side forming the array. It's not a "hot-mess" at the box junctions any more.
AND, the volume spread per passband was less than a 1/4 dB between the HF horn and mid-horn (peak-hold measurements). The 15" was 2 dB down at 104dB. This was with pink noise and program material played at -20dB on the amp (the first green LED fully lit) and the x-over was the 500Hz factory preset on the DC-One. The dB meter was about 3' from the box.
The next pleasant surprise.........the horn dispersion has narrowed. At 10' from the array, as I moved past being parallel to the box edge, the meter dropped off smoothly and at 10 degrees off parallel, it was 10dB down while on axis with the horn, and the 15" off.
Didn't get pics of that, but I feel so much better now about the project and the box itself.
The DH-7 has proven itself as well as the Kappalite, now the mids are good.
Time to go make money................Happy New Year!
Attachments
Update after many shows..........
After a few shows (some flown, some stacked) the results are way more than I expected.
A simple 0db on the mains and channel strip and the vocal is WELL within the ballpark (loud, clear, and balanced) with all EQ's flat at both points.
I use a Midas M32 and an XTA 226 processor. System is bi-amped using the factory box crossover between the 8" and 1.4".
Ashley Protea EQ and master limiter.
Vocal mics are M80 Telefunkens or Heil 35's.
Amps are QSC PL380's.
Subs are QSC HPR 181's driven off an aux.
The boxes are flown side to side (3) with a strip of carpet between them and ratchet strapped tightly together.
As a matter of fact, the first channel control (usually) I reach for in sound check is the compressor on a mic'd channel, NOT the EQ strip. There's that much dynamic available from the rig.
For shows going above 105db, that changes quickly as the LoMid starts outrunning everything else due to the amount of cone area and the fact that those shows are mostly stacked PA rock shows.
Moderate volume shows are very easy to make sound great.
The rooms I'm in a lot are ballrooms about 10,000 sq ft and up. They sound good to begin with.
I'm happy with the outcome of this project. Took a LOT to finish it and way more time in the shop than I expected.
Make sawdust people................don't accept what the factory hands you as the end of the journey. It's just the beginning......................
After a few shows (some flown, some stacked) the results are way more than I expected.
A simple 0db on the mains and channel strip and the vocal is WELL within the ballpark (loud, clear, and balanced) with all EQ's flat at both points.
I use a Midas M32 and an XTA 226 processor. System is bi-amped using the factory box crossover between the 8" and 1.4".
Ashley Protea EQ and master limiter.
Vocal mics are M80 Telefunkens or Heil 35's.
Amps are QSC PL380's.
Subs are QSC HPR 181's driven off an aux.
The boxes are flown side to side (3) with a strip of carpet between them and ratchet strapped tightly together.
As a matter of fact, the first channel control (usually) I reach for in sound check is the compressor on a mic'd channel, NOT the EQ strip. There's that much dynamic available from the rig.
For shows going above 105db, that changes quickly as the LoMid starts outrunning everything else due to the amount of cone area and the fact that those shows are mostly stacked PA rock shows.
Moderate volume shows are very easy to make sound great.
The rooms I'm in a lot are ballrooms about 10,000 sq ft and up. They sound good to begin with.
I'm happy with the outcome of this project. Took a LOT to finish it and way more time in the shop than I expected.
Make sawdust people................don't accept what the factory hands you as the end of the journey. It's just the beginning......................
Attachments
That IS my small system.........
The larger rig is a 32 box NEXO Alpha and the system beyond that is an 48 box EV Xlc rig. I'm trying my best to make the smaller system sound more like the NEXO.
That rig spoiled me..............
105dB is "A" weighted at FOH mix position averaged.
Make no mistake, 105 at FOH is pretty good. I don't want to beat that small system much harder than 120dB 1M from the box. It looses it's tonal balance above that and starts to sound "washy" at the two box junction lines.
That situation has been WAY diminished with these mods to the boxes, but it's slightly there at the higher SPL's. Most of the time, it's not run that hard at all.
Don't want it to sound like I beat it silly every weekend.
The array sounds very pleasant from 105 on down and it covers 110 degrees horizontal. That's all I need to ask of it.
Thanks for the compliment, it was an adventure and I learned a lot about mid-horns. It just took an investment in time and some fairly expensive mid- drivers. I'm lucky to have the wood shop I do.
The larger rig is a 32 box NEXO Alpha and the system beyond that is an 48 box EV Xlc rig. I'm trying my best to make the smaller system sound more like the NEXO.
That rig spoiled me..............
105dB is "A" weighted at FOH mix position averaged.
Make no mistake, 105 at FOH is pretty good. I don't want to beat that small system much harder than 120dB 1M from the box. It looses it's tonal balance above that and starts to sound "washy" at the two box junction lines.
That situation has been WAY diminished with these mods to the boxes, but it's slightly there at the higher SPL's. Most of the time, it's not run that hard at all.
Don't want it to sound like I beat it silly every weekend.
The array sounds very pleasant from 105 on down and it covers 110 degrees horizontal. That's all I need to ask of it.
Thanks for the compliment, it was an adventure and I learned a lot about mid-horns. It just took an investment in time and some fairly expensive mid- drivers. I'm lucky to have the wood shop I do.
Ah yes, I've worked on Nexo Alpha for a few years at a local venue. 5x M3, 5x B1, 3x S2, per side, in an 800 capacity nightclub. Pretty loud.
We kept blowing breakers, though, because 3x B1 in parallel drop to about 1ohm at around 100Hz. The Camco Vortex 6 was happy to provide the power. The circuit breaker really wasn't.
If this is your small system, that makes mine a 2-channel monitor rig.
Chris
We kept blowing breakers, though, because 3x B1 in parallel drop to about 1ohm at around 100Hz. The Camco Vortex 6 was happy to provide the power. The circuit breaker really wasn't.
If this is your small system, that makes mine a 2-channel monitor rig.
Chris
That Alpha system stays in a 2,000 capacity room. Way more PA than is needed but the WoW factor is what is required for acts to be happy. They can get as loud as they want for soundcheck, BUT, we throttle them back to 105dB at FOH position for the show so people don't lose hearing standing next to the stacks.
It's still my favorite "desert island" PA for tone and bandwidth.
It's still my favorite "desert island" PA for tone and bandwidth.
Nexo life.................
Sounds like you are square waving the B.1 channel with duty cycle. They are 6 ohm drivers, so most amps have their back to the wall with 3 B.1's/channel in that freq. range. Nearly 50% duty cycle when the signal gets compressed.
Check your 241 and make sure the sensitivity is 26dB on that channel. If you can't get another amp, turn that back and make the notch filter kick in sooner.
Latest firmware version is 2.48. Contact me if you have any trouble loading it.
Different amps behave radically different on the fringe. I've run VZ5000's on everything except the 2"s and haven't lost a B.1 since 1999.Nothing runs much below 4 ohms ever. When you add the wire impedance and the 2 B.1's, electrically the line measures about 4 ohms.
I've run her hard, I've had Jackyl on that PA repeatedly with no problem (and they mic a chainsaw!) so she's seen LOUD. 115dB stable at FOH! Can't imagine being any nearer the PA while that's going on. The bikers luv it though...........
I've haven't seen a 1-2ohm stable amp since those Crest 10001 days..........damn boat anchors. Good amps mind you, just Class H juice drinkers. They were happy at/near 1 ohm. Hardly ever saw them clip.
They were happy driving multiple quad 15 Community boxes. Those triple spider drivers could take it like a boss.
VZ-5000's aren't very friendly on the distro either, BUT they sound good just at and as they're clipping. And they're nice and linear, make the PA sound good low or high volume.
Live and learn.
Sounds like you are square waving the B.1 channel with duty cycle. They are 6 ohm drivers, so most amps have their back to the wall with 3 B.1's/channel in that freq. range. Nearly 50% duty cycle when the signal gets compressed.
Check your 241 and make sure the sensitivity is 26dB on that channel. If you can't get another amp, turn that back and make the notch filter kick in sooner.
Latest firmware version is 2.48. Contact me if you have any trouble loading it.
Different amps behave radically different on the fringe. I've run VZ5000's on everything except the 2"s and haven't lost a B.1 since 1999.Nothing runs much below 4 ohms ever. When you add the wire impedance and the 2 B.1's, electrically the line measures about 4 ohms.
I've run her hard, I've had Jackyl on that PA repeatedly with no problem (and they mic a chainsaw!) so she's seen LOUD. 115dB stable at FOH! Can't imagine being any nearer the PA while that's going on. The bikers luv it though...........
I've haven't seen a 1-2ohm stable amp since those Crest 10001 days..........damn boat anchors. Good amps mind you, just Class H juice drinkers. They were happy at/near 1 ohm. Hardly ever saw them clip.
They were happy driving multiple quad 15 Community boxes. Those triple spider drivers could take it like a boss.
VZ-5000's aren't very friendly on the distro either, BUT they sound good just at and as they're clipping. And they're nice and linear, make the PA sound good low or high volume.
Live and learn.
Haven't worked there for a while actually - its at my old university's students' union's nightclub. When it was first installed (NL8 patch panels by the stacks, wired to the rack in a different room), fired it all up, check HF...
Sounds weird.
Listen around for a while, and someone pipes up: "Why's this B1 trying to do treble?"
Got them back to fix it pretty sharpish.
When I was checking over the mains wiring in there, it turned out that we had a pair of 32A supplies feeding the PA. 2x Vortex 4 (HF), 2x Vortex 6 (MF), 2x Vortex 6 (B1), 3x Vortex 6 (S2). CAMCO Amplifiers
One of the supplies was for the 2x Vortex 4 amps.
The other fed no less than seven Vortex 6 amps, which had a combined output of the order of 40KW. This, from a supply rated for around 7.5KW. No wonder we had problems. I don't know if they ever fixed it.
Monitors were SSE Betamax and some Crown MA2400 amps that looked like they'd spent several decades in a cottom mill, the amount of dust and fluff they'd accumulated. Still worked fine, as the old Crowns always do, but still. ML4000 desk until they got an M32. Both nice bits of kit. There's something about a big analogue desk, though.
We had another pile of Alpha that was used in a very big octagon-shaped room. The room's day use was conferences, so we got good at stacking Alpha each night. Those racks were a mix of Camco Vortex and Crown VZs (we specialised in half-working VZ5000s). 125A (240v) 3-phase distro gave us enough juice in there. That said, a moment of terror was when someone went to connect the 125-3 to the distro, and the cable dropped out of the connector. We pulled the far end of the cable out of the wall, and put it next to the bare copper, to make damn sure nobody plugged it in. Think we ran on a couple of 32A supplies that night.
In the big room, we'd occasionally (read: if we could be bothered) run a quad of those EV 2x18" subs, the ones with the magnets in the slot. Who doesn't need more 50Hz? *rolls eyes*
Chris
Sounds weird.
Listen around for a while, and someone pipes up: "Why's this B1 trying to do treble?"
Got them back to fix it pretty sharpish.
When I was checking over the mains wiring in there, it turned out that we had a pair of 32A supplies feeding the PA. 2x Vortex 4 (HF), 2x Vortex 6 (MF), 2x Vortex 6 (B1), 3x Vortex 6 (S2). CAMCO Amplifiers
One of the supplies was for the 2x Vortex 4 amps.
The other fed no less than seven Vortex 6 amps, which had a combined output of the order of 40KW. This, from a supply rated for around 7.5KW. No wonder we had problems. I don't know if they ever fixed it.
Monitors were SSE Betamax and some Crown MA2400 amps that looked like they'd spent several decades in a cottom mill, the amount of dust and fluff they'd accumulated. Still worked fine, as the old Crowns always do, but still. ML4000 desk until they got an M32. Both nice bits of kit. There's something about a big analogue desk, though.
We had another pile of Alpha that was used in a very big octagon-shaped room. The room's day use was conferences, so we got good at stacking Alpha each night. Those racks were a mix of Camco Vortex and Crown VZs (we specialised in half-working VZ5000s). 125A (240v) 3-phase distro gave us enough juice in there. That said, a moment of terror was when someone went to connect the 125-3 to the distro, and the cable dropped out of the connector. We pulled the far end of the cable out of the wall, and put it next to the bare copper, to make damn sure nobody plugged it in. Think we ran on a couple of 32A supplies that night.
In the big room, we'd occasionally (read: if we could be bothered) run a quad of those EV 2x18" subs, the ones with the magnets in the slot. Who doesn't need more 50Hz? *rolls eyes*
Chris
your mileage may vary..........
Sounds like a few installs I've gone in and "cleaned-up" after. Amazing how dumb some people can get AFTER someone hears a system and is blown away by the quality, then "THIS" bunch shows up and it's a pile of dung really quick.
The way I see it, a system is a race car.
The driver and pit crew are the ops.
Without either, they're nothing.
Simple to look at.
Relatively complicated and precise behind the scenes.
Sounds like a few installs I've gone in and "cleaned-up" after. Amazing how dumb some people can get AFTER someone hears a system and is blown away by the quality, then "THIS" bunch shows up and it's a pile of dung really quick.
The way I see it, a system is a race car.
The driver and pit crew are the ops.
Without either, they're nothing.
Simple to look at.
Relatively complicated and precise behind the scenes.
EV QRX 218
Hi guys I am from a country call Trinidad and Tobago. My system is pretty large 32 QRX 218 12 EAW 860s and 8 Smaller line arrays. My system is fixed install on a 40ft Trailer
I am looking for advice on the way I configured my speakers on the back of the trailer. The picture will show the configuration.
My concern if the bass is not loud as expected. I don't know if the configuration is the reason. Please note this is a space limited installation
Hi guys I am from a country call Trinidad and Tobago. My system is pretty large 32 QRX 218 12 EAW 860s and 8 Smaller line arrays. My system is fixed install on a 40ft Trailer
I am looking for advice on the way I configured my speakers on the back of the trailer. The picture will show the configuration.
My concern if the bass is not loud as expected. I don't know if the configuration is the reason. Please note this is a space limited installation
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