I'm going to build one of these three kits ... Which one would you suggest. I can NOT lose. So I will go with the most suggested.
Satori SBA951
Scan Revelator B1371
Scan Illuminator B741
Here are the links ...
Satori SBA 951 Speaker Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
B1371 Scan-Speak Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
B741 Scan-Speak Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
Satori SBA951
Scan Revelator B1371
Scan Illuminator B741
Here are the links ...
Satori SBA 951 Speaker Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
B1371 Scan-Speak Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
B741 Scan-Speak Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
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Peter is not my favorite xover designer. He tends to compensate every wiggle, and the networks get costly fast. Not that he doesn't at least know a little about the process, but you can get by with much less.
I've been told about a design of his that used double the woofers to cut down on volume capacity, and in effect made them operate too loosely and had higher distortion trouble in the bass as a result.
Honestly, I would look elsewhere,
Wolf
I've been told about a design of his that used double the woofers to cut down on volume capacity, and in effect made them operate too loosely and had higher distortion trouble in the bass as a result.
Honestly, I would look elsewhere,
Wolf
That was first inclination, until I saw the sensitivity was several db down for the MTM speakers. Technically the B741s have the highest end drivers, with a smaller midrange, and dual 7" Illuminator drivers with 9mm excursion. Sounds like great bass.
Then the Revelator pair has a 13" woofer! But a 7" midrange sounds like it may be dynamic. At 93db efficiency, this could kick butt.
Of course the Satori system has those Papyrus cone drivers, dual 5" mids, and dual 9.5" Papyrus woofers.
Hell of a decision.
Sony has been quietly selling a lot of speakers like this, and since they don't have any real credibility in the "audiophile" world, they sell used for next to nothing:
Vintage Sony SS-M7A Speakers! | eBay
MAKE AN OFFER Sony SS-M7 Floor Speakers - Cherry15x15x30 NEEDS BOTTOM DRIVERS | eBay
Vintage Sony SS-M7A Speakers! | eBay
MAKE AN OFFER Sony SS-M7 Floor Speakers - Cherry15x15x30 NEEDS BOTTOM DRIVERS | eBay
Wow, I have a set of SS-M7's that I paid maybe $450 for. They were the floor models at the dealer when the line was discontinued. I have used them in the garage for some years now. Maybe I should clean them up and sell them off!
Bill
Hi Flaxxer,
these designs seem to ignore both baffle diffraction and "port leakage" issues. While not the most important things in the world, and never looked deeper into these the data you posted, it makes me feel there might be some other overlooked things in these (or they just are old designs). No off-axis data available for example. To a semi serious hobbyist (me) it looks like fancy parts slapped together while you Might get better performance cheaper with better acoustic design.. albeit a bit harder to build. The motivation for these seems to be more marketing and dollars than excellent audio quality.
Just to let you know that these are not worth that much money in my opinion, from engineering perspective. Especially when second hand prices for DIY speakers is about zero I'd buy commercial audiophile speakers if you want to have some value ( and not to lose ). Hopefully I wasn't too rough, trying to pass on things I think I've learned
these designs seem to ignore both baffle diffraction and "port leakage" issues. While not the most important things in the world, and never looked deeper into these the data you posted, it makes me feel there might be some other overlooked things in these (or they just are old designs). No off-axis data available for example. To a semi serious hobbyist (me) it looks like fancy parts slapped together while you Might get better performance cheaper with better acoustic design.. albeit a bit harder to build. The motivation for these seems to be more marketing and dollars than excellent audio quality.
Just to let you know that these are not worth that much money in my opinion, from engineering perspective. Especially when second hand prices for DIY speakers is about zero I'd buy commercial audiophile speakers if you want to have some value ( and not to lose ). Hopefully I wasn't too rough, trying to pass on things I think I've learned
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Yeah, these seem like some very high performance drivers being held back by the cabinet design. A conventional box is, of course, easier to build than a more complicated low-diffraction cabinet... but the mid and tweeter really benefit from a well designed low diffraction baffle. I would like to see these designs with a 37 mm radius on the sides and top... or a generous 40 mm bevel.
If I were working with drivers of this caliber, I would want either (1) a very low diffraction conventional baffle, or (2) a waveguide design. Comercial examples would be Magico M2 and Revel Ultima Studio2.
For $4000 you could put together a 3-way active system with Hypex N-core amplification and the same high-end drivers as shown in those kits.
Here is what I recently constructed. New active Satori Textreme
I could duplicate this for about $3500 in material costs. If my design interests you, send me a private PM. I documented my work and would gladly share every detail.
The open source monkey coffin is excellent in every way except for the horrible, gross, bizzarre name... It is like going to a fine restaurant and the menu contains a fabulous dish called "bowl of snot"... Hard to order that dish...
I mean we would not call a DIY compression driver kit a "Screachy Honker"...
Yes by all means, take a look at the open source monkey coffin. There is a very long thread here about it... you just have to get past the name.
I mean we would not call a DIY compression driver kit a "Screachy Honker"...
Yes by all means, take a look at the open source monkey coffin. There is a very long thread here about it... you just have to get past the name.
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As others have pointed out you can lose because although the kits use expensive good quality drivers and the on-axis response is likely fine the off-axis will be less so with possibly one or two other things not matching the price point subject to a closer look.
A better designed DIY speaker in your price range might look something like this but there are others. Unless the money is peanuts to you I would suggest taking a bit more time making a short list.
Huge thank you to everyone here. Lots of great suggestions and thoughts.
I realize I did not give enough information really. What attracted me to those speakers was two things; High end drivers with high end xover parts.
And the 93db sensitivity of two of them, and 90 for the other.
This is my thoughts boiled down. I have a rare for me, ability to finally purchase a very high end speaker, IF I build it myself. I've fully built 7 kits. But these were actual kits. Woodwork is very easy for me, as is soldering. Building great speakers is easy for me. Designing them? NO
When I saw what I believed were just what I wanted, as far as high end parts, and in kit form, with high sensitivity, I thought I had a near perfect design ...NO
Someone mentioned "For $4000 you could put together a 3-way active system with Hypex N-core amplification and the same high-end drivers as shown in those kits" And this was exaclty what I was thinking as well ... until several pointed out they didn't even feel these cabinets were designed as well as they could be.If they didn't get baffle width, speaker placement proximity, etc right, then THIS plan is also shot to hell.
I do not have a Beryllium tweeter in my collection yet. And I want one. All of the 3 speaker kits I had picked had them. I would really like to try the Illuminator D3004/664000 tweeter.
Someone mentioned Troels ... Before I research to death, does anyone have anything negative I should know about his designs, before I start?
Wanting a Beryllium tweeter can be satisfied with Troels Faital 3WC-15 speakers, along with the high sensitivity. ANYTHING wrong with this kit? LOL. I have the room for it. I can add a sub if needed.
Or would you pay someone to design a "proper" cabinet for one of the PBN designs, and use the drivers with Hypex actively?
Thanks again.
I realize I did not give enough information really. What attracted me to those speakers was two things; High end drivers with high end xover parts.
And the 93db sensitivity of two of them, and 90 for the other.
This is my thoughts boiled down. I have a rare for me, ability to finally purchase a very high end speaker, IF I build it myself. I've fully built 7 kits. But these were actual kits. Woodwork is very easy for me, as is soldering. Building great speakers is easy for me. Designing them? NO
When I saw what I believed were just what I wanted, as far as high end parts, and in kit form, with high sensitivity, I thought I had a near perfect design ...NO
Someone mentioned "For $4000 you could put together a 3-way active system with Hypex N-core amplification and the same high-end drivers as shown in those kits" And this was exaclty what I was thinking as well ... until several pointed out they didn't even feel these cabinets were designed as well as they could be.If they didn't get baffle width, speaker placement proximity, etc right, then THIS plan is also shot to hell.
I do not have a Beryllium tweeter in my collection yet. And I want one. All of the 3 speaker kits I had picked had them. I would really like to try the Illuminator D3004/664000 tweeter.
Someone mentioned Troels ... Before I research to death, does anyone have anything negative I should know about his designs, before I start?
Wanting a Beryllium tweeter can be satisfied with Troels Faital 3WC-15 speakers, along with the high sensitivity. ANYTHING wrong with this kit? LOL. I have the room for it. I can add a sub if needed.
Or would you pay someone to design a "proper" cabinet for one of the PBN designs, and use the drivers with Hypex actively?
Thanks again.