I tried to put woofers in series and as you wrote the woofer level is then decreased by 6 dB so is at level about 90 dB as the rest of the speakers. But as I have read about baffle step loss at the end I will miss the 6 dB. Isn´t it true? I know that impedance of woffer section would be much better as I would get 16 ohm but how would it sound? Wouldn´t be there a lack of bass?
Guys, I am sorry to trouble all of you who want to help. Now I see my knowledge is very poor.
We were all in the same place at some time... Learning takes time, and progress is a team sport.
Start by reading this thread... read it twice
So you want to design your own speaker from scratch!
Baffle step is of concern. But you'll listen in your listening room I presume. The low frequencies will be boosted by the nearby boundaries and in general the modal (standing waves) behavior of your room will determine sound pressure level at the listening position.
The concept of baffle step is thus fine for outdoor open space listening. And you'll always have to deal with it. In normal situations the room contributions are of equal importance.
BTW I once did what you are planning, 30 years ago. Never ever experienced a lack of bass with 2x10" in series combined with a 6.5" mid. Did an active corrected B6 at 25Hz in 120l total. It was loud and it was in control. Half the size of your design
[Edit] Come to think of it, why not skip one woofer? The weak link in your design will be the midrange, it'll run hot and/or out of it's linear range before the woofers even come to play a bit loud.
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Some additional random comments
Were you trying not to let it go too high as well, as this shouldn't be necessary?
Were you doing this for the reason above? The RC is OK but often optional.
The tutorial you were reading is not the one best suited to your method. You are looking at phase in Xsim, and this allows a better crossover than the 'reverse null' method could.
You forgot to apply a real music situation.
Thank you. Many of these articles I have already red but will again.
10 years ago I have built 2-way speakers without any crossover simulation. Just calculated the crossover. I know it is the worst way to do that but in that time I had no other option. The speakers play until today and now I just wanted something better. I do not need something extra ordinay, just good sound and not to burn amplifier.
Baffle step is of concern. But you'll listen in your listening room I presume. The low frequencies will be boosted by the nearby boundaries and in general the modal (standing waves) behavior of your room will determine sound pressure level at the listening position.
The concept of baffle step is thus fine for outdoor open space listening. And you'll always have to deal with it. In normal situations the room contributions are of equal importance.
BTW I once did what you are planning, 30 years ago. Never ever experienced a lack of bass with 2x10" in series combined with a 6.5" mid. Did an active corrected B6 at 25Hz in 120l total. It was loud and it was in control. Half the size of your design
[Edit] Come to think of it, why not skip one woofer? The weak link in your design will be the midrange, it'll run hot and/or out of it's linear range before the woofers even come to play a bit loud.
Thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it.
Regarding 2 woofers - I was afraid of lack of bass. The volume is based on 2 woofers project so if there is just one the volume could be half. It should play from 27 Hz (-3 dB) with two woofers by calculation.
I did not expect the midrange to be the weak point. Some projects used it as a woofer in 2-way system, but I believe it can be problem. Hoped cutting frequencies are good to let it play in comfort range. I will have to consider it. Thank you.
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Yes I wanted impedance curve to be "good" at cutting frequencies and that was the reason of using RC for woofer and midrange and notch filter for tweeter.
I was also trying to set phase of all speakers close to each other. How "far" they can be? What is the tolerance?
As I wrote I just want good playing speakers. Will never measure anything just listen.
I want crossover to be as simple as possible.
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What are the box dimensions you have designed for?
One woofer will keep up with two in series and will almost get as loud.
One woofer will keep up with two in series and will almost get as loud.
What do you mean here?
I want to make something similar as Avalon Tesseract. 240 l chamber will be just for woofers. Midrange with tweeter will have separate chamber.
If I understand well, should I use just one woofer? What is then purpose of two woofers (which are often used) if they play almost as loud as one ? Why two woofers make problem? Because of impedance?
With good playing speakers I ment that I will never measure the speakers parameters so I do not care about any details which my ears will not be able to listen. I just want to have clear sound, good bass and as simlpe crossover as possible.
If I understand well, should I use just one woofer? What is then purpose of two woofers (which are often used) if they play almost as loud as one ? Why two woofers make problem? Because of impedance?
With good playing speakers I ment that I will never measure the speakers parameters so I do not care about any details which my ears will not be able to listen. I just want to have clear sound, good bass and as simlpe crossover as possible.
Two mid/woofers are sometimes used above and below the tweeter for the adjustment of vertical dispersion. Is that the kind you mean?
Ok, this is a more conventional crossover, meant as a starting suggestion.
1. I have added some baffle effects, I had to guess the dimensions.
2. I have not added rear box effects, this probably only matters for the midrange box.
3. I have used the 15 degree responses.
4. All slopes are LR4. If you think the crossover is too complicated, you might try removing one component each from the lower cross, but expect to work for it.
5. The impedance drops just below 300Hz, perhaps when you adjust the response for the mid when it's in its box, you can adjust this dip out a little in the crossover.
If you need files I will post them.
Ok, this is a more conventional crossover, meant as a starting suggestion.
1. I have added some baffle effects, I had to guess the dimensions.
2. I have not added rear box effects, this probably only matters for the midrange box.
3. I have used the 15 degree responses.
4. All slopes are LR4. If you think the crossover is too complicated, you might try removing one component each from the lower cross, but expect to work for it.
5. The impedance drops just below 300Hz, perhaps when you adjust the response for the mid when it's in its box, you can adjust this dip out a little in the crossover.
If you need files I will post them.
Attachments
Are you determined to use those Dayton drivers? Otherwise consider some designs that fulfill your needs and have been designed with enough knowledge. Like the Mona Kea. But there are lots of other designs around that will fit, at about every price range.
[Edit]I was deliberately disregarding your remarks about that Avalon. Cloning those would imply remarkable woodworking skills and knowing what to do to build such enclosures successfully. And although one may like the form, it’s not by default a perfect incarnation of a loudspeaker.
[Edit]I was deliberately disregarding your remarks about that Avalon. Cloning those would imply remarkable woodworking skills and knowing what to do to build such enclosures successfully. And although one may like the form, it’s not by default a perfect incarnation of a loudspeaker.
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Thank you very much for the web page, it looks interesting and maybe I will find some design suitable for me. Dayton speakers are quite well available with good price but maybe I will find something else to replace them.
I know that Avalon enclosure is a challenge so I will see.
Thank you once again for help.
Your first stage needs to separate between bass and mid/tweet. Then, the mid/tweet signal needs to feed into a low pass and a high pass stage to separate the mid and high signal out.
Think about how your schematic causes a phase misalignment between mid and tweet.
The way you have drawn it is an often made mistake, but that doesn't make it right.
Think about how your schematic causes a phase misalignment between mid and tweet.
The way you have drawn it is an often made mistake, but that doesn't make it right.