Another opinion..
Time to mix things up a bit. Never understood the fascination for the LS3/5A as a residential use speaker system. In its day, used as intended it was quite good, but to be honest, it did not have much competition.
The only other speaker that sold as well was the Yamaha NS-10, which is awful! So much for reputations! Love the NS-1000M. Own them for many years.
Have listened to several LS3's over the years, but not all that impressed. Know it has a following for a reason as nothing else sounds quite like it. Nice woofer - tweeter integration. But on a stand nothing much below 100 Hz and can't play all that loud above that. And don't care for the fairly large bump in the 100-200 Hz region.
Tech has come a long way the last 50 years. You can by the "C" Note kit from Parts Express for a 100 bucks US a pair that is every bit as good as the LS3/5A in nearly all areas and bests it in several areas. The "C" Note is ported, but you can plug the port and stuff the box to obtain a similar LS3 bass presentation with out the damn lower mid range bump.
Obviously if the LS3/5A floats your boat, that is great. You are ahead of most in your search for personal enjoyment. J
Time to mix things up a bit. Never understood the fascination for the LS3/5A as a residential use speaker system. In its day, used as intended it was quite good, but to be honest, it did not have much competition.
The only other speaker that sold as well was the Yamaha NS-10, which is awful! So much for reputations! Love the NS-1000M. Own them for many years.
Have listened to several LS3's over the years, but not all that impressed. Know it has a following for a reason as nothing else sounds quite like it. Nice woofer - tweeter integration. But on a stand nothing much below 100 Hz and can't play all that loud above that. And don't care for the fairly large bump in the 100-200 Hz region.
Tech has come a long way the last 50 years. You can by the "C" Note kit from Parts Express for a 100 bucks US a pair that is every bit as good as the LS3/5A in nearly all areas and bests it in several areas. The "C" Note is ported, but you can plug the port and stuff the box to obtain a similar LS3 bass presentation with out the damn lower mid range bump.
Obviously if the LS3/5A floats your boat, that is great. You are ahead of most in your search for personal enjoyment. J
Pretty much complete agreement here.
50 years ago LS3/5s were the only ones in their segment but these days the market is swamped with speakers that size and almost all are better and less coloured.
But hey there is no accounting for taste!
50 years ago LS3/5s were the only ones in their segment but these days the market is swamped with speakers that size and almost all are better and less coloured.
But hey there is no accounting for taste!
Tis true.
Mind you, the likes of the Tannoy Reds and Golds have also been bettered.
They seem just as sought after, and perhaps just as quirky and flawed, by modern standards.
Mind you, the likes of the Tannoy Reds and Golds have also been bettered.
They seem just as sought after, and perhaps just as quirky and flawed, by modern standards.
Surely Charles Darwin would know about natural selection 🙂 The LS3/5A are still king in the midrange and are still in the gene pool regardless of age. Sure there are more less coloured improved speakers but they dont do it like the LS3/5A's do.
I would love to see someone like Troels Gravesen run a measurement/simulation of the modern Falcon Acoustics LS3/5A! It would be fascinating.
As an engineer, I noticed the LS3/5A was a negative polarity solution on a recessed baffle, here a Harbeth homage:
Very unusual.
Mr. Troels has done his positive polarity equivalents:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
Same well-behaved polycone. Better tweeter. But not quite the same thing. I have always thought the secret of the LS3/5A was a butterworth 90 degree filter on voices. Flat power response an' all that. Bass was rubbish, of course. A bedroom or van speaker. Designed to monitor voice quality. 😀
As an engineer, I noticed the LS3/5A was a negative polarity solution on a recessed baffle, here a Harbeth homage:
Very unusual.
Mr. Troels has done his positive polarity equivalents:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
Same well-behaved polycone. Better tweeter. But not quite the same thing. I have always thought the secret of the LS3/5A was a butterworth 90 degree filter on voices. Flat power response an' all that. Bass was rubbish, of course. A bedroom or van speaker. Designed to monitor voice quality. 😀
Worst thing about the Harbeth version Steve, is the grille.
The LS3/5A I'm used to have the recessed grill, not the best thing for diffraction, but BIG caveat being, at least it has heavier 1/2" square felt on all edges.
That Harbeth has none. I didn't think it was possible to deal with that baffle aspect WORSE than KEF, Goodman's, Roger's, but it looks like they do.
As far as the LS3/5A filter goes, the XO schematic shows what topology used lol.
That t27 is a good unit, as Mylar domes go, can have a bit of sizzle, but at least there no typical textile dome break up fuzz at 8k up.
A ring radiator would help there, eg the Troels you cite but again, after a few years of textile domes, I cant bear their distant, indistinct presentation at higher frequencies, where 100% of their output is break up.
Shame really, there doesn't seem to be many good Mylar domes any more. They made a good halfway house between ally and textile
The LS3/5A I'm used to have the recessed grill, not the best thing for diffraction, but BIG caveat being, at least it has heavier 1/2" square felt on all edges.
That Harbeth has none. I didn't think it was possible to deal with that baffle aspect WORSE than KEF, Goodman's, Roger's, but it looks like they do.
As far as the LS3/5A filter goes, the XO schematic shows what topology used lol.
That t27 is a good unit, as Mylar domes go, can have a bit of sizzle, but at least there no typical textile dome break up fuzz at 8k up.
A ring radiator would help there, eg the Troels you cite but again, after a few years of textile domes, I cant bear their distant, indistinct presentation at higher frequencies, where 100% of their output is break up.
Shame really, there doesn't seem to be many good Mylar domes any more. They made a good halfway house between ally and textile
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In theory 'BBC licensed' implies that they sound exactly the same as any other 15Ω LS3/5 since the purpose of the licensing was that you could replace single ones should one break rather than replacing the pair.
How well that theory holds up in real life I neither know nor care about.
How well that theory holds up in real life I neither know nor care about.
Yes that is the whole point of LS3/5As in general, 'they all should sound the same'.
Which is what makes all these random high prices they sell for all the more silly. But then hardcore collectors are a little bit silly.
If I have to award some sort of prize to a great BBC speaker, and lets be honest the BBC assembled some of the greatest music lovers of the 1970's into some sort of team, it goes to a two-way. The Wharfedale Shelton XP2:
Wharfedale Shelton XP2. A minor classic IMO.
8" bass plus 3/4" tweeter sounds like a nightmare on dispersion. But trust me, it worked:
That crossover LCR trap is SO BBC. And believe me, it works beautifully on everything but impedance. Lots of bass. As a man who started his career on amplifiers, I hate bumpy impedance. But what do I know? 😀
Wharfedale Shelton XP2. A minor classic IMO.
8" bass plus 3/4" tweeter sounds like a nightmare on dispersion. But trust me, it worked:
That crossover LCR trap is SO BBC. And believe me, it works beautifully on everything but impedance. Lots of bass. As a man who started his career on amplifiers, I hate bumpy impedance. But what do I know? 😀
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Off the Wall Question Time !
A challenge for Steve, Grand Master of the XO
Take a single 5" full range driver (e.g. A10.3, which has a cone size consistent with many 5" drivers) in a box (in my case it's got a port, but that could be readily modified couldn't it). How do you make it sound like a BBC speaker?
Design a filter network specifically to re-create the impedance profile, frequency response and phase shift profile of the original XO
Just for laughs of course but I must just try it 😀
A challenge for Steve, Grand Master of the XO
Take a single 5" full range driver (e.g. A10.3, which has a cone size consistent with many 5" drivers) in a box (in my case it's got a port, but that could be readily modified couldn't it). How do you make it sound like a BBC speaker?
Design a filter network specifically to re-create the impedance profile, frequency response and phase shift profile of the original XO
Just for laughs of course but I must just try it 😀
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I was thinking of exactly the same thing, and I would be even more specific - pick a well known driver that is readily available on both sides of the pond with decent performance and not too expensive so that we can all make our own BBC monitors. Actually, some people may even be able to do this with DSP and recreate the sound of an LS3/5A in the back of a news van with the touch of a button.
I am thinking maybe a P830656?
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1078--tymphany-sds-p830656-spec-sheet.pdf
Or Faital Pro 5FE120?
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1141-faitalpro-5fe120-8-specifications.pdf
I am thinking maybe a P830656?
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1078--tymphany-sds-p830656-spec-sheet.pdf
Or Faital Pro 5FE120?
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1141-faitalpro-5fe120-8-specifications.pdf
... some more proposals:
Hifi-Selbstbau - LS3/5a Battle des DIY-HiFi-Forums bei Blue Planet Acoustic
Hifi-Selbstbau - Der Kleinlautsprecher-Test
Regards
Heinrich
Hifi-Selbstbau - LS3/5a Battle des DIY-HiFi-Forums bei Blue Planet Acoustic
Hifi-Selbstbau - Der Kleinlautsprecher-Test
Regards
Heinrich
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Sure, they where made by seas
I believe mr tyler made the celef ls8 as a way to sell of his stockpile of drivers
Thanks for the link! That’s a great comparison and we can see the target profile and impedance curve now.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Foamcore homage to the LS3/5A. Well I like the idea of a small mini monitor, so I am making a foamcore 2-way in the standard 12in tall x 7.5in wide x 6.5in deep format using a 5.25 in polycone HP-5210 woofer and an RST28F silk dome tweeter. With some double layer CLD panels, some bracing, I think it might work out well. In any case, I'll have fun tweaking a crossover to replicate the response of an LS3/5A. The HP-5210 is a blowout sale woofer from P.E. that I got years ago. I just ran it through DATS and got ~57Hz fs, Qts of ~0.44 and Vas of 7~.7L and sensitivity of 87 to 88dB dB. I know, these are CHEAP woofers, how can they possibly compare to the B110's which sell for about $400 a pair... 🙂 The sealed box sim for 7.5L (that's bigger than 5L since my walls are only 3/16in thick except the front which is double) gives a F3 of 95Hz. I just finished cutting up the foamcore sheets and will glue up later tonight. The rear-mounted woofer poses an extra challenge of making the front baffle removable with drywall screws on ledgers. In case you are wondering if foamcore speakers can sound any good, check out the different projects here:
Foam Core Board Speaker Enclosures?
Advantages are quick and low cost materials and can cut on a kitchen table or work bench without power tools and no sawdust. Can be glued instantly with hot melt glue for making speakers in several hours or 1 night vs days or weeks.
I believe this is the target frequency response (from link above to the LS3/5A shootout):
Here is the DATS T/S param measurement on the HP-5210's:
Box simulation for 7.5L sealed in VituixCAD (my first use of this very cool program):
Foamcore sheets all cut and waiting to be assembled:
Similarities: rubber surround on woofer, polymer based cone, mesh/grille on tweeter, same general size:
Foam Core Board Speaker Enclosures?
Advantages are quick and low cost materials and can cut on a kitchen table or work bench without power tools and no sawdust. Can be glued instantly with hot melt glue for making speakers in several hours or 1 night vs days or weeks.
I believe this is the target frequency response (from link above to the LS3/5A shootout):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here is the DATS T/S param measurement on the HP-5210's:
Box simulation for 7.5L sealed in VituixCAD (my first use of this very cool program):
Foamcore sheets all cut and waiting to be assembled:
Similarities: rubber surround on woofer, polymer based cone, mesh/grille on tweeter, same general size:
Attachments
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Hi,
To throw a spanner into the works if you can build and sound better than these pair for US$599 including postage then don't open this website:
SoundArtist LS3/5A Monitor Bookshelf Speakers loudspeakers Pair : China-hifi-Audio online store, Yaqin,Meixing Mingda,XiangSheng,Line Magnetic Tube Amplifier, power amp, preamp,hi-fi CD Player high end audio for sale [MUIA9832320] - $599.00 USD
To throw a spanner into the works if you can build and sound better than these pair for US$599 including postage then don't open this website:
SoundArtist LS3/5A Monitor Bookshelf Speakers loudspeakers Pair : China-hifi-Audio online store, Yaqin,Meixing Mingda,XiangSheng,Line Magnetic Tube Amplifier, power amp, preamp,hi-fi CD Player high end audio for sale [MUIA9832320] - $599.00 USD
One speaker is built and ready for raw driver measurments. In the meantime, I am having a quick listen with an existing XO from another speaker and it sounds pretty good.
Lots of bracing and Noico damping:
Foam padding with melamine in strategic places:
Quick check to see how it sounds with a crossover from another 2 way:
More details on the build in the Foamcore speaker thread here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...board-speaker-enclosures-322.html#post6317344
Looks pretty good - the dimensions are very compact and pleasing:
Lots of bracing and Noico damping:
Foam padding with melamine in strategic places:
Quick check to see how it sounds with a crossover from another 2 way:
More details on the build in the Foamcore speaker thread here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...board-speaker-enclosures-322.html#post6317344
Looks pretty good - the dimensions are very compact and pleasing: