Looks like you've got your crossover sorted - look forward to your TL design, I've put my slot ported box on the back burner for now in favor of a PR box.
Ive been constantly messing with different XO's (LR, BW, combos, low cross, high crosses) with the MiniDSP and the purifi woofer and sb dome tweeter for weeks. Each one I have tried I've been just O.K. with. When I first saw your XO proposal I though nah that doesnt look good but I'll give it a shot anyway since the miniDSP is so easy.
Boy was I wrong. This is honestly the first crossover with this setup where I've gone "aahhh now this is right". Well not completely. The one I posted earlier was a "hmm, this sounds WAY better (that what i've done so far)" - but something was off. Felt like some of the mids were a little muffled. I wasn't sure what/why, but I suspected the cross was a pinch too high. I had the cross set at 3.2K but acoustically it ended up around 3.6 due to the tweeter level. So this morning I dropped the cross to 2.8K on the DSP and remeasured. Looking good for 3.2 acoustic cross. Now we are cooking with gas. Everything sounds right where it should be. Imaging is the best I've had it. Nothing is lost in the mix. I can hear vocals extremely clearly. Very happy with it! New measurements attached.
Funny how an "unconventional" crossover, for lack of a better word, seems to work so damn well here! I think I can stop messing with the crossover and finish my box design now.
Thank you.
Ive been constantly messing with different XO's (LR, BW, combos, low cross, high crosses) with the MiniDSP and the purifi woofer and sb dome tweeter for weeks. Each one I have tried I've been just O.K. with. When I first saw your XO proposal I though nah that doesnt look good but I'll give it a shot anyway since the miniDSP is so easy.
Boy was I wrong. This is honestly the first crossover with this setup where I've gone "aahhh now this is right". Well not completely. The one I posted earlier was a "hmm, this sounds WAY better (that what i've done so far)" - but something was off. Felt like some of the mids were a little muffled. I wasn't sure what/why, but I suspected the cross was a pinch too high. I had the cross set at 3.2K but acoustically it ended up around 3.6 due to the tweeter level. So this morning I dropped the cross to 2.8K on the DSP and remeasured. Looking good for 3.2 acoustic cross. Now we are cooking with gas. Everything sounds right where it should be. Imaging is the best I've had it. Nothing is lost in the mix. I can hear vocals extremely clearly. Very happy with it! New measurements attached.
Funny how an "unconventional" crossover, for lack of a better word, seems to work so damn well here! I think I can stop messing with the crossover and finish my box design now.
Thank you.
Hi Mainframe,
Your measurements look awesome! That’s a textbook Harsch XO. Can you remind me what tweeter you are using? Do you have photos of your setup to share? I have experience a similar thing with XO frequency placement before. Once I had dome tweeter crossed at 2.5k and it sounded dull, I moved it to 2k and it was transformed to greatness. On my particular dome in a waveguide, I don’t have a problem as it seems to be well integrated and the mids from the PTT6.5 are beautiful. I need to keep it where it is in order to take advantage of the 4th order I get naturally by imposing a second order electrical on top of the natural fall off.
This is one of the most well-executed Harsch XO’s I have ever seen in miniDSP:
Your description of the sound is exactly what I also felt after trying many different XO’s on the miniDSP. It sounds right, foot tapping dynamics and imaging. That’s the beauty of transient perfect crossovers. The only other one that’s similar is the first order transient perfect. It needs special smooth wideband drivers.
I think many people say that time alignment or flat phase doesn’t matter - but for me it does. I can hear it, and once you hear it, you can’t go back to wonky looking step response of a LR2 or LR4.
Happy listening!
Your measurements look awesome! That’s a textbook Harsch XO. Can you remind me what tweeter you are using? Do you have photos of your setup to share? I have experience a similar thing with XO frequency placement before. Once I had dome tweeter crossed at 2.5k and it sounded dull, I moved it to 2k and it was transformed to greatness. On my particular dome in a waveguide, I don’t have a problem as it seems to be well integrated and the mids from the PTT6.5 are beautiful. I need to keep it where it is in order to take advantage of the 4th order I get naturally by imposing a second order electrical on top of the natural fall off.
This is one of the most well-executed Harsch XO’s I have ever seen in miniDSP:
Your description of the sound is exactly what I also felt after trying many different XO’s on the miniDSP. It sounds right, foot tapping dynamics and imaging. That’s the beauty of transient perfect crossovers. The only other one that’s similar is the first order transient perfect. It needs special smooth wideband drivers.
I think many people say that time alignment or flat phase doesn’t matter - but for me it does. I can hear it, and once you hear it, you can’t go back to wonky looking step response of a LR2 or LR4.
Happy listening!
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There is a link in the first paragraph of Post #1 on the Harsch XO.
S. Harsch XO
Regarding the taller floor stander - let me see what I can do.
S. Harsch XO
Regarding the taller floor stander - let me see what I can do.
Plans for PTT6.5L and RS28F/WG300 TL
2D Plans for TL (in JPG and PDF). Note that a removable front baffle can be made to allow exchanging tweeters if desired using an 8.5in wide removable baffle attached with countersunk wood screws directly to the side panels. Be sure to use a foam rubber gasket for air tightness.
2D Plans for TL (in JPG and PDF). Note that a removable front baffle can be made to allow exchanging tweeters if desired using an 8.5in wide removable baffle attached with countersunk wood screws directly to the side panels. Be sure to use a foam rubber gasket for air tightness.
Attachments
ohhh thanks for answering my question. so would this have a tweeter on top like a ess heil amt or dome in it's own little enclosure?
edit: ohhh I'm dumb, I assumed the bottom driver was the dayton 8" woofer you use on your FAST design but I see now it's the purifi and the top driver is a tweeter in a waveguide
edit: ohhh I'm dumb, I assumed the bottom driver was the dayton 8" woofer you use on your FAST design but I see now it's the purifi and the top driver is a tweeter in a waveguide
The angled piece of wood is optional and can be inserted to improve bass SPL by about 1dB if needed. When I designed it, I had not considered mechanical interference with tweeter magnet and rear chamber which extends 3in from baffle front or 2.25into the chamber. The angled wall probably can’t go the full 2into the closed end. Alternatively, a small cutout (sealed) can be used to accommodate the tweeter rear chamber.
I haven’t heard of the Rauna Njord - just looked it up. Swedish concrete TL speakers...
I haven’t heard of the Rauna Njord - just looked it up. Swedish concrete TL speakers...
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In case anyone wants to make this speaker with a removable front baffle (useful for adjusting stuffing or installing angle bass-booster volume filler plate, or XO board. Here is a drawing for just the front baffle. Note that it looks like it is made of a middle part bonded to two 3/4in side pieces (and it is in 3D), but you can make it out of single 3/4in thick piece of wood. You may not wish to put a roundover on the vent exit to leave enough wood for the countersunk screw heads to grip the board at the top. If doing this, all the other dimension from the side for the rest of the speaker are reduced by 0.75in. I actually made a drawing and when I went to save it, SolidWorks crashed and I lost the drawing. Nature's way of telling me it wasn't meant to be posted.
If you are serious, you can figure it all out I am sure.
One final piece that will make this a true DIY project that anyone can do is the adapter plate between the RS28F and the WG300. Here is the STL file - you can print one yourself for about not much money. The WG300 can be purchased directly from Monacor or their distributors:
MONACOR: WG-300
So there it is: full plans, full crossover schematics (even a PCB if you want one), measurements, and waveguide adapter. You have everything you need to replicate this awesome speaker.
I have on order some of the new RST28F-4's have superceded the now obsolete RS28F-4's. I will swap that out and see what tweaks to the XO are needed - but I think it will be very close - perhaps a slighty larger value of padding resistor since it gained a few dB of sensitivity.
If you are serious, you can figure it all out I am sure.
One final piece that will make this a true DIY project that anyone can do is the adapter plate between the RS28F and the WG300. Here is the STL file - you can print one yourself for about not much money. The WG300 can be purchased directly from Monacor or their distributors:
MONACOR: WG-300
So there it is: full plans, full crossover schematics (even a PCB if you want one), measurements, and waveguide adapter. You have everything you need to replicate this awesome speaker.
I have on order some of the new RST28F-4's have superceded the now obsolete RS28F-4's. I will swap that out and see what tweaks to the XO are needed - but I think it will be very close - perhaps a slighty larger value of padding resistor since it gained a few dB of sensitivity.
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In case anyone wants to make this speaker with a removable front baffle (useful for adjusting stuffing or installing angle bass-booster volume filler plate, or XO board. Here is a drawing for just the front baffle. Note that it looks like it is made of a middle part bonded to two 3/4in side pieces (and it is in 3D), but you can make it out of single 3/4in thick piece of wood. You may not wish to put a roundover on the vent exit to leave enough wood for the countersunk screw heads to grip the board at the top. If doing this, all the other dimension from the side for the rest of the speaker are reduced by 0.75in. I actually made a drawing and when I went to save it, SolidWorks crashed and I lost the drawing. Nature's way of telling me it wasn't meant to be posted.
If you are serious, you can figure it all out I am sure.
One final piece that will make this a true DIY project that anyone can do is the adapter plate between the RS28F and the WG300. Here is the STL file - you can print one yourself for about not much money. The WG300 can be purchased directly from Monacor or their distributors:
MONACOR: WG-300
So there it is: full plans, full crossover schematics (even a PCB if you want one), measurements, and waveguide adapter. You have everything you need to replicate this awesome speaker.
I have on order some of the new RST28F-4's have superceded the now obsolete RS28F-4's. I will swap that out and see what tweaks to the XO are needed - but I think it will be very close - perhaps a slighty larger value of padding resistor since it gained a few dB of sensitivity.
Appreciate your generosity!
If I had the Purifi designed high excursion low distortion passive radiators it might be different, but the inexpensive Dayton ones that I have seem to run out of excursion quite easily and just don't have the deep bass impact I was looking for. If my past experience with TL's is any indicator, the TL for the PTT6.5 would beat any PR, even the Purifi ones. Of course, the cabinet is going to be bigger. But the sound from a well-designed tapered TL has to be heard to be believed.
X - I wish I was in the US to give your awesome TL a listen. I hope to have the PR build finished this weekend, using the same SB 5x8's as jmpsmash in the purifi thread, almost identical box - I'm just getting too much port noise with bass reflex. If I'm still not satisfied I will give a TL a go, as I've read nothing but great things. As for the XO, I think I'm done. the harsch actually works best to my ears. Although I suspect my polars mightn't be so pretty I'm not bothered as I listen on axis in a dedicated room. Tweeter is the SB26adc for the moment and its a really good tweeter, but I've splurged and new tweeters have just arrived today. I also need to school myself up on CAD drawing and find a CNC shop, I suspect the TL box might be a bit much with just my table saw here!
I don't have any photos of the setup here - it consists of the MiniDSP studio SHD feeding two identical dacs onto two power amps, a ncore 502mp for the woofers and a ncore 122mp for the tweeters.
I don't have any photos of the setup here - it consists of the MiniDSP studio SHD feeding two identical dacs onto two power amps, a ncore 502mp for the woofers and a ncore 122mp for the tweeters.
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Problem with poor off axis isn't that you sit and listen in that direction, it is that this energy will eventually reach your ears and the off axis polars is what your are mostly listening to. Mr Bose was correct; 8/9 of all sound that reaches your ear is reflected sound. So work on those polars for best results!! This is wht serious an insightful designers here keep posting the "spinorama" charts.
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