World's Best Tweeters Face-off :: Subjective comparison

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Sjef

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Joined 2003
ScottG said:
:yes:

..and they lack some depth within that range as a result. :eek:

It should be noted however that this is "relative" within any given design. It's quite likely that the lower treble performance of the RAAL, even with it's limitations, is superior to many midrange drivers it might be coupled with.


-also, some are really disturbed by that limited vertical dispersion. It's best to know if you are one of those people BEFORE you make your purchase. ;)
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Yes, offcoarse it's all about the combination in the first place. So as always it's hard to say one is superior to the other in any case. It's just that I don't like ending up with a sterile sounding system.

On dispersion, the Beyma AMT is also very nice but has the same vertical dispersion "problem" for me. For others it might not be such a problem
 
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JonBocani

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Joined 2015
Sjef said:
I have had the RAAL 140-15 for a while and really tried hard to like it but I didn't. First of all, like any other ribbon on the planet they can only be used as a super tweeter in my opinion. In the lower treble they are just too overdamped, too sterile. Many people call that uncoloured. I call that the inability to portray colours, that's a whole different story. This also makes them pretty hard to combine with a midrange unless the midrange driver is overdamped as well. But then you'll end up with a totally sterile system, not my cup of tea. Secondly, I hated the limited vertical dispersion, even with the foams on. I also have the large. ESS AMT and the old ESS small AMT. The Big AMT's also have way to limited vertical dispersion so I prefer the smaller one. The small ESS AMT also has much better top end then the big one, but that's mostly because of a better power response. They can only be used from 4kHz on up though. The RAAL has better top end above 10kHz, but when I switched from the RAAL ribbons to the AMT it was inmedialty more relaxed, voices where much better defined and had a lot more body. Tone colours where better (no not colouration, tone colours). I would have kept the RAAL's if they didn't have that limited vertical dispersion because they are very good supertweeters. I bet they sound realy good in a floor to ceiling line array but for obvious reasons I'm not going to try. I have tried the RAAL in different systems (passive and active with DEQX) and anytime I thought it was a very good tweeter it started to annoy me after a while.

PS, I also had some small Dayton AMT but these are totally rubbish compared to the RAAL's or ESS AMT. Both the ESS AMT are about the worst build quality I have ever seen on any loudspeaker unit any time however, still they sound good.
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In a ''battle'' between my ATC mid dome and the RAAL, i was always playing with xover points between about 2.2khz and 2.8khz. Even run few months with 1.4khz! The ATC was squeezed between the Volt and 140-15 to the point it was almost useless.. haha

But later, i replaced the ATC for a Voxativ (and later a Seas F8) and the Voxativ was the only mid i tested that outperformed the 140-15 up to +/- 3.5khz, and even more... Which, at the time, surprised me a lot.
 
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JonBocani

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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Made a project this year using a pair of 210-10D and i was curious to see them perform in ''party mode''

At 14 meters distance, 12deg off-axis horizontaly and 5deg vertically they pushed 105.5db with music (no pure tone or pink noise)... I have no idea what was the THD but it was very listenable (but loud).

I was very impressed by their output.
 
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Sjef

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I guess the Voxativ more lively upper midrange makes a better match with the RAAL. I also had a better match when using a pair of Audax PR170 instead of my Phy-HP wide range drivers. The PR170 has more "bite" then the Phy-HP's. I know the ATC mid quite well and it is a well behaved driver, although very good it's sometimes a bit too behaved
 
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Eldam

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Joined 2012
Sjef said:
Yes, offcoarse it's all about the combination in the first place. So as always it's hard to say one is superior to the other in any case. It's just that I don't like ending up with a sterile sounding system.

On dispersion, the Beyma AMT is also very nice but has the same vertical dispersion "problem" for me. For others it might not be such a problem
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Is it possible to have a rotation with such planar on the bafle to find position with a trade off between the horizontal and vertical dispersion on the sweet spot only ? for example the tweeter could be putt like that : / on the left bafle and the opposite position in the right bafle ! to adjust the polar patern but in 3D :confused:.

Deserve to put such a planar on a circle bafle which can turn for easy tests ?

Or is it simply impossible because too much beaming at those involved frequencies ?
 
eriksquires

eriksquires

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Joined 2013
I'm just curious how the best ceramics, and beryllium tweeters would do in this line up. I've read somewhere that they actually have higher distortion and energy storage than less exotic counterparts. If there are any links in diy, please let me know. As some one who has just started reading this site, and can't possibly afford to buy and listen to all tweeters out there, I'd love to learn more.
 
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JonBocani

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Joined 2015
Sjef said:
I guess the Voxativ more lively upper midrange makes a better match with the RAAL. I also had a better match when using a pair of Audax PR170 instead of my Phy-HP wide range drivers. The PR170 has more "bite" then the Phy-HP's. I know the ATC mid quite well and it is a well behaved driver, although very good it's sometimes a bit too behaved
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Voxativ + RAAL = Best last 5 octaves i heard. Ever.
 
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Scott L

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Joined 2008
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Sjef said:
I guess the Voxativ more lively upper midrange makes a better match with the RAAL. I also had a better match when using a pair of Audax PR170 instead of my Phy-HP wide range drivers. The PR170 has more "bite" then the Phy-HP's. I know the ATC mid quite well and it is a well behaved driver, although very good it's sometimes a bit too behaved
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Hello,

Is that the PR 170zo you are referring to ?
 
augerpro

augerpro

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Joined 2006
somasonus.net/
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I used the Aurum Cantus AST2560 for a short time and it was very good, extremely well behaved and inoffensive. I almost didn't try them after measuring the new ESS AMT and the response and distortion were atrocious. Then I seen Paul W compare the ESS diaphragm and big Aurum Cantus diaphragm in a diy motor and the AC was head and shoulders above the ESS. So I gave it a try.
 
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JonBocani

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Joined 2015
Spent pretty much all my sunday trying to integrate the 210-10D into my 4-way speakers, along with the Voxativ AC-1.6...

damn, that 210-10D is a pain in the a&&!!

finally pinpointed the best xover: exactly 4,820hz @ linear phase 300db/oct
after trying everything possible, from 2.8khz to 8khz... You can't imagine how tired i am to listen this pink noise tune :rolleyes:

Unsatisfied, even then, i had to work on the other drivers... New xover 880hz midbass/mid... new EQing... and finally new speaker position in the room.

The final result is stunning. Absolutely stunning.

So much music information and so well-balanced at the same time... So much energy and dynamics but liquid-smooth a the same time...

Bottomline: the 210-10D is REALLY DIFFICULT to integrate, but wow, man, what a driver when you got it right. We're talking audioporn level here. :apathic::apathic:
 
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JonBocani

Member
Joined 2015
You'll have to make your list, best to worst tweeters for all to see.
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hehe :)
my opinion on drivers is obviously subjective and the best way one can really know is by testing, in his own system..

also, a tweeter's performance (or any driver for that matter) is very dependant of the other driver's... Let's take the 210-10D by example: i think it would match badly with 99% of the midrange on the market, while the 70-20XR would probably fit with almost everything. So which one is the best ? It depends.

No absolute answer.
 
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Eldam

Banned
Joined 2012
this one mostly : http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/mundorf/mundorf_amt27d11.pdf ! I'd like to listen to it (good sensivity ! close to the Beyma's)

you can read often than above 10 K hz the Beyma is not so great, better an ESS Heil V1 here ! Could be great to benchmark those 3 side by side at a same XO (at least 1800 hz because the Mundorf datasheet) !

Have you seen those guys in the Planar forum whom diy huge AMT ! Great... (thanks Greebster ;) )
 
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