I'm just confused! some pictures indicated midrange and woofer are ribbed and some not! the website I referred to claims those are 12p80nd and 18p90nd and also CD and horn. does anyone have any description?
I think using 18-incher is just more than adequate, like "hey everybody, mine is bigger!" also using an 12-incher as a mid-range seems odd to me.
O bugger, put my glasses on and yes ribbed
does not matter what drivers they are using, we can get as close as dammit for a fraction of the cost and get better highs with the TPL150!
O bugger, put my glasses on and yes ribbed
does not matter what drivers they are using, we can get as close as dammit for a fraction of the cost and get better highs with the TPL150!
I bet I've seen M1 with soft (flat) diagrams!
lemme Google
Only in home audio, in pro audiio 12" is a fairly normal mid-range size.
If using pro drivers you'd need an 18" to get down to the low 30s, 12" usually have an Fs of 45-70Hz or so. They do go a lot louder with lower distortion than home HiFi drivers though.
That said my Tannoys use 12" for the mids up to 1.2kHz and their 15" cross at around 800-900Hz.
They work pretty well in opinion.
..don't tell me they are ribbed!
..the photo is to poor in resolution and focusing to make that determination. In any number of photos that are higher res. they are in fact ribbed upon close examination.
Several photos have only enough res. and focus to present the 18" driver as ribbed once "zoomed-in", and the one you have selected doesn't even have that IMO.
Attached spreadsheet with T/S parameters for a few 18" woofers. Happy to add other interesting models.
The Beyma 18P80Nd has a modest efficiency advantage over this group, as well as very low harmonic distortion(datasheet). The BMS 18S430v2 is often praised at its price point for its low distortion from 3-demodulation rings. The Peavey LoRider 18 is often considered the safest low cost option based upon T/S specs, reliability and consistent production.
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Selecting a 12" midbass includes the decision between:
1) "low" Qts between 0.15-0.2 and ~40Hz Fs in order to get high cone control at the expense of requiring active bass boost equalization at the 180-220Hz baffle step. The low Qts goal is to approach the "tight" horn/HEIL tweeter character from a large sealed midrange box with heavy stuffing. Baffle step will always require some equalization, so selecting a 12" with a curve that mates to the baffle width is an interesting design marriage choice. The Beyma 12P80Nd fits these T/S goals.
2) "medium" Qts between 0.3-0.4 and <40Hz Fs that will reach -3db at 80Hz in a Qt=0.7 sealed box without equalization. This can simplify an all passive Xover. The Lambda TD12M fits these T/S goals.
Selecting a 12" midrange for its high efficiency will cause cone beaming starting at ~600Hz and developing a narrow ~60 degree polar pattern at 1200-1600Hz. There are several great 60x40 horns available for this common marriage. A very "short" horn like the 3.9" LTC250, or 4.3" XR1064 can help time align the CD dome delay with the 12" delay.
Selecting a lower efficiency 10" midrange allows a 1100-1200Hz Xover to a 90 degree polar horn as is often recommended for HT couch families.
I think the M1 flips the horn to 40Hx60V in order to 40-degree polar-match the 12" with an 1800Hz Xover, and also provide some vertical blending between the 12" and 60 degree horn polar to smooth over the 12" beaming(single lobe).
The Beyma 18P80Nd has a modest efficiency advantage over this group, as well as very low harmonic distortion(datasheet). The BMS 18S430v2 is often praised at its price point for its low distortion from 3-demodulation rings. The Peavey LoRider 18 is often considered the safest low cost option based upon T/S specs, reliability and consistent production.
----------------
Selecting a 12" midbass includes the decision between:
1) "low" Qts between 0.15-0.2 and ~40Hz Fs in order to get high cone control at the expense of requiring active bass boost equalization at the 180-220Hz baffle step. The low Qts goal is to approach the "tight" horn/HEIL tweeter character from a large sealed midrange box with heavy stuffing. Baffle step will always require some equalization, so selecting a 12" with a curve that mates to the baffle width is an interesting design marriage choice. The Beyma 12P80Nd fits these T/S goals.
2) "medium" Qts between 0.3-0.4 and <40Hz Fs that will reach -3db at 80Hz in a Qt=0.7 sealed box without equalization. This can simplify an all passive Xover. The Lambda TD12M fits these T/S goals.
Selecting a 12" midrange for its high efficiency will cause cone beaming starting at ~600Hz and developing a narrow ~60 degree polar pattern at 1200-1600Hz. There are several great 60x40 horns available for this common marriage. A very "short" horn like the 3.9" LTC250, or 4.3" XR1064 can help time align the CD dome delay with the 12" delay.
Selecting a lower efficiency 10" midrange allows a 1100-1200Hz Xover to a 90 degree polar horn as is often recommended for HT couch families.
I think the M1 flips the horn to 40Hx60V in order to 40-degree polar-match the 12" with an 1800Hz Xover, and also provide some vertical blending between the 12" and 60 degree horn polar to smooth over the 12" beaming(single lobe).
Attachments
A TPL150/12p80nd is a great match.
I would howwever not use just one 18" woofer, but but ideally a sub line array, just to cover the lowest octave, up to 60hz. That way, you distribute low bass energy even into the room, and not coming only from low on the floor. Despite many argue, that at low bass directionality cannot be perceived, i disagree. Its well perceived. That well, that i did add to my bass horn two 15" ers. For a rather small room, up to 30sqm, thats however far too much. If i had to start from scratch, i would employ maibe 4 x 12" subwoofer line arrays on each side.
Since we are already quite far away from the Daniel Hertz things I'd rather clone any of these little things:
http://quested.com/studio-monitoring-production/pdfs/Quested-Custom-Systems.pdf
It'll cost more for sure to clone (but a fair bit less to buy retail!) and most of the info is given.
Drivers are all by Volt except the tweeters which are by Morel although I so far have failed to identify the 8" used in the 4way systems. Any ideas anyone?
Amplification is by MC2 Audio and the xover/management by XTA only rebadged.
So far I've heard nothing but good things about them from people I trust a LOT more than any HiFi rag hack.
http://quested.com/studio-monitoring-production/pdfs/Quested-Custom-Systems.pdf
It'll cost more for sure to clone (but a fair bit less to buy retail!) and most of the info is given.
Drivers are all by Volt except the tweeters which are by Morel although I so far have failed to identify the 8" used in the 4way systems. Any ideas anyone?
Amplification is by MC2 Audio and the xover/management by XTA only rebadged.
So far I've heard nothing but good things about them from people I trust a LOT more than any HiFi rag hack.
This is OT, but Quested also has a speaker with the TPL-150.
Monitoring systems - studio speakers. Welcome to the world of QUESTED
Monitoring systems - studio speakers. Welcome to the world of QUESTED
Attachments
Using the models in WinISD, none of the 18" Eminence woofers perform as well as the $200 Peavey LoRider 18" in a ported 8-9 cu_ft box volume like the M1. The Peavey 18" would be one of the easiest woofers to use in a ported box with an all passive crossover design. The Peavey 18 and Lambda TD12M would make a good marriage for an all passive Xover design.
The Beyma 18P80Nd and 12P80Nd use the same motor and cone materials. They would make a good marriage if an active crossover with equalization was used.
A few driver sims I had on my computer that might help illustrate design alternatives.
--midbass--sealed
Beyma 12P80Nd Qts ~0.25 2 cuft stuffed box "tight transients"
Lambda TD12M Qts ~0.7 0.7 cuft stuffed box "normal transient"
--woofers--ported
Beyma 18P80nd modest bass shelf in 10 cuft
Beyma 18XL60v1 standard Qts=0.7 in 12 cuft
Peavey 1808-8HPS standard Qts=0.7 in 8 cuft
--midbass--sealed
Beyma 12P80Nd Qts ~0.25 2 cuft stuffed box "tight transients"
Lambda TD12M Qts ~0.7 0.7 cuft stuffed box "normal transient"
--woofers--ported
Beyma 18P80nd modest bass shelf in 10 cuft
Beyma 18XL60v1 standard Qts=0.7 in 12 cuft
Peavey 1808-8HPS standard Qts=0.7 in 8 cuft
Attachments
Attached spreadsheet with T/S parameters for a few 12" midbass.
From Beyma datasheet: **T-S parameters are measured after an exercise period using a preconditioning power test. The measurements are carried out with a velocity-current laser transducer and will reflect the long term use thermal effect.
From Beyma datasheet: **T-S parameters are measured after an exercise period using a preconditioning power test. The measurements are carried out with a velocity-current laser transducer and will reflect the long term use thermal effect.
Attachments
CHALLENGE: Prove diyAudio is smarter than Daniel Hertz M1 and JBL 4345 designers.
Select available high efficiency drivers, AND post a 3D image of a clever low diffraction cabinet for the...
M1:
18" woofer + 12" midbass + 60x40 controlled directivity "short" horn/waveguide.
Vintage JBL 4345:
18" woofer + 10" midbass + 90x40 controlled directivity horn/waveguide/AMT
Using a Beyma TPL 150xx accepted with a horn/waveguide solution that matches midbass polar pattern at the Xover frequency.
