S5115HT tweeters:
The S5115HT should contain JA-4205B, which is a nice bullet tweeter. I have the JA4281B, but I have exchanged them for RAAL. Raal is sweeter, but is not as aggressive/poweful as the JA4181B. Maybe better for PA than hifi?
YAMAHA JA-4205B ( ????? ) - ?????????? - Yahoo!???
S5115HT midrange:
YAMAHA JA-6603 is the phenolic version of the JA6681B, which sounds more like a Klipsch K 55 V, but with a much nicer sound from its more modern phenolic membrane. I still prefer the aluminum version for its extra clarity. I think the phenolic is good at limiting too much high frequency distortion, but in my opinion it tend to sound more nasal/squawking for some reason, just like Klipsch K 55 V, which happens to be appropriate nicknamed "The Squawker".
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YouTube
I found this video that could explain why they used copper beryllium fingers as suspension. Copper slows down magnetic fields and could give more control. Maybe the copper shields aluminum from the magnetism. For instance, the reason the industry is not using aluminum voice coil bobbins in woofers anymore (JBL K140 still had it) is because aluminum transfers heat which could loosen the glue and deform the voice coil faster. Aluminum also causes eddy currents which would heat it even more. Maybe they used beryllium in the copper to reduce weight of the suspension, since copper is a pretty heavy material. So the benefit of copper beryllium suspension may be magnetic shielding either to protect the glue from heat or that it sounded nicer with less eddy currents. I am just guessing.
I found this video that could explain why they used copper beryllium fingers as suspension. Copper slows down magnetic fields and could give more control. Maybe the copper shields aluminum from the magnetism. For instance, the reason the industry is not using aluminum voice coil bobbins in woofers anymore (JBL K140 still had it) is because aluminum transfers heat which could loosen the glue and deform the voice coil faster. Aluminum also causes eddy currents which would heat it even more. Maybe they used beryllium in the copper to reduce weight of the suspension, since copper is a pretty heavy material. So the benefit of copper beryllium suspension may be magnetic shielding either to protect the glue from heat or that it sounded nicer with less eddy currents. I am just guessing.
Did you ever find a good horn to go with your Yamaha drivers? I've recently acquired 2, and am now in the same situation you were 4 years ago
I am no expert but the expert I do know who very successfully built the Beyond the Aerial system uses these horns with his drivers. Hope this helps you. https://www.azurahorn.com/6681_on_160.pdfDid you ever find a good horn to go with your Yamaha drivers? I've recently acquired 2, and am now in the same situation you were 4 years ago
Radian
How many of us live with the fear of blowing a diaphragm? And how crazy is it that given the huge admiration for the JA6681B at threads like this, that there's no aftermarket brand who has duplicated the diaphragms to sell as replacements?
The only brand I know that makes diaphragms for other drivers besides their own is https://radianaudio.com/collections/diaphragms
Is Radian, in fact, the biggest aftermarket vintage horn driver diaphragm maker?
If yes, then assuming your broken JA6681B diaphragms are unrepairable why not contact the Radian marketing staff and offer your diaphragms to them if they at least promise to attempt to clone them?
And make them aware that there is a small but very stable demand for these diaphragms among diy speaker circles.
The Radian/Materion partnership seems very solid.
https://radianaudio.com/blogs/our-n...h-end-truextent-acoustic-beryllium-diaphragms
But though they are producing beryllium diaphragms there's probably no reason why they couldn't produce aluminum ones for cloning the 6681B.
Those with broken 6681B diaphragms should contact Radian about cloning theirs. The bad news is that tweeting Radian might be the only way of reaching them. I've tried phoning, emailing and using the chatbot at their website but no reply.
OR maybe there is another brand who makes aftermarket diaphragms of quality equal to Radian's but who are accessible, AND who might be interested in cloning your broken diaphragms. But who?
Certainly, this brand gets a lot of respect at the Beyond the Ariel thread. https://www.eighteensound.it/en/products/hf-driver
And while hardly inexpensive, would few, if any, of their drivers be unobtainable by most committed builders here?
https://reverb.com/item/47225134-pa...-sound-8-ohm-amt-s-and-xmt200-waveguides-nice
Therefore, given the apparent know-how of designers like those from 18Sound, how difficult or expensive could it be for many horn driver and/or other audio hardware brands to clone the JA6681B, or at least the diaphragm? The patent probably expired long ago and probably the most expensive piece in the whole driver might be the miniscule amount of beryllium needed for the diaphragm suspension.
Furthermore, as many people still have the drivers, albeit with useless broken diaphragms, the brand could begin marketing only the diaphragms, where advertising at venues like this, would have the diaphragm being snapped up very fast, AND probably in larger quantities. Then when friends of builders hear their completed systems using these unique sounding drivers, a strong demand could also develop for clones of the whole driver.
But nothing will happen without some kind of organized demand among the DIY community, either via appeals directed to leading horn driver brands, like 18Sound and https://radianaudio.com/collections/diaphragms and/or to leading suppliers like
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/replacement-diaphragms-baskets
I just can't believe that consumer apathy has allowed the crass aspects of this market to make doorstops out of this incomparable driver.
And while hardly inexpensive, would few, if any, of their drivers be unobtainable by most committed builders here?
https://reverb.com/item/47225134-pa...-sound-8-ohm-amt-s-and-xmt200-waveguides-nice
Therefore, given the apparent know-how of designers like those from 18Sound, how difficult or expensive could it be for many horn driver and/or other audio hardware brands to clone the JA6681B, or at least the diaphragm? The patent probably expired long ago and probably the most expensive piece in the whole driver might be the miniscule amount of beryllium needed for the diaphragm suspension.
Furthermore, as many people still have the drivers, albeit with useless broken diaphragms, the brand could begin marketing only the diaphragms, where advertising at venues like this, would have the diaphragm being snapped up very fast, AND probably in larger quantities. Then when friends of builders hear their completed systems using these unique sounding drivers, a strong demand could also develop for clones of the whole driver.
But nothing will happen without some kind of organized demand among the DIY community, either via appeals directed to leading horn driver brands, like 18Sound and https://radianaudio.com/collections/diaphragms and/or to leading suppliers like
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/replacement-diaphragms-baskets
I just can't believe that consumer apathy has allowed the crass aspects of this market to make doorstops out of this incomparable driver.
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Hey since you have the ja6681b do you think this is for real or fake
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LASE-Repla...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0 it might be a blessing or not
Maybe, or not. https://lase.us/
But it's definitely not the same design. The original 15 segment "s" beryllium ring is likely essential to producing the sonic qualities of this driver. The only way to produce the original sound is for one or more of those here to offer their broken diaphragms to those brands most willing and able to clone them. There must be creditable brands in North America and Europe to approach.
But it's definitely not the same design. The original 15 segment "s" beryllium ring is likely essential to producing the sonic qualities of this driver. The only way to produce the original sound is for one or more of those here to offer their broken diaphragms to those brands most willing and able to clone them. There must be creditable brands in North America and Europe to approach.
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I don’t think these can be even close to the original sound. Original diaphragm had paper VC former and beryllium-copper (mostly copper) fingers which I believe contributed to the smooth and slightly dark sound of the driver. Aluminium also has a higher breakup than modern Ti diaphragms at about 8-9kHz. This is from memory, so correct me if I am wrong. It is a shame that these diaphragms were never produced. But I think it wouldn’t be too difficult to produce. Similar sound for other drivers. You could start over with a Radian 760 PB and and just borrow the diaphragm and VC. Then order laser cut fingers from a sheet of copper and glue it together with some rings made of mdf. The VC former will be made of kapton but suspension will be sort of correct.
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Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda......
So if cloning these diaphragms is not difficult then interested thread members here should be offer those technically capable brands what others at this and other forums have done for want of a special item: A "mass buy". They get written assurance from the brand's marketing department that they can build the item to spec-in this case, cloning a diaphragm. Everyone prepays, either in part or in full for their order, after which the brand also commits to issuing one or two diaphragms for us to run complete measurements on. If the diaphragm performs like a perfect 6681B diaphragm then everyone pays off their balance and receives their order. And the brand should thereafter be further encouraged to continue periodic production runs, as most owners of these drivers will surely want at least a 2nd or or 3rd pair. AND if only one brand agrees to do the cloning they they will, in fact, be further encouraged given the absence of competition. So what are we waiting for??
Radian, or 18Sound AND definitely https://greatplainsaudio.com/products/, who made my wonderful Altec 416-8B midwoofers, would at least consider our proposal.
Perhaps the best way to convince these leading driver brands-and others you may know of-is for each of us to email or webchat with these brands AND to send them links to this thread-from page 1 or 2, where Klaus laments the absents of replacement diaphragms, and to to this page, where, years later, JA6681B owners are still badly missing the unique sound of these drivers.
But make no mistake, like petitioning for a bill to make it become law, without enough signatures it will never happen!
So join me in reaching out to these brands ASAP and just tell them what you want!
So if cloning these diaphragms is not difficult then interested thread members here should be offer those technically capable brands what others at this and other forums have done for want of a special item: A "mass buy". They get written assurance from the brand's marketing department that they can build the item to spec-in this case, cloning a diaphragm. Everyone prepays, either in part or in full for their order, after which the brand also commits to issuing one or two diaphragms for us to run complete measurements on. If the diaphragm performs like a perfect 6681B diaphragm then everyone pays off their balance and receives their order. And the brand should thereafter be further encouraged to continue periodic production runs, as most owners of these drivers will surely want at least a 2nd or or 3rd pair. AND if only one brand agrees to do the cloning they they will, in fact, be further encouraged given the absence of competition. So what are we waiting for??
Radian, or 18Sound AND definitely https://greatplainsaudio.com/products/, who made my wonderful Altec 416-8B midwoofers, would at least consider our proposal.
Perhaps the best way to convince these leading driver brands-and others you may know of-is for each of us to email or webchat with these brands AND to send them links to this thread-from page 1 or 2, where Klaus laments the absents of replacement diaphragms, and to to this page, where, years later, JA6681B owners are still badly missing the unique sound of these drivers.
But make no mistake, like petitioning for a bill to make it become law, without enough signatures it will never happen!
So join me in reaching out to these brands ASAP and just tell them what you want!
Here are more brands who offer OEM solutions-exactly what we need to clone the 6681B diaphragm.
https://eminence.com/pages/custom-oem
https://bcspeakers.com/en/resources/tech-support/
https://celestion.com/about-us/
https://www.daytonaudio.com/topic/OEMODM
https://faitalpro.com/en/contact_us/?ctype=2
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=412&Itemid=260
https://eminence.com/pages/custom-oem
https://bcspeakers.com/en/resources/tech-support/
https://celestion.com/about-us/
https://www.daytonaudio.com/topic/OEMODM
https://faitalpro.com/en/contact_us/?ctype=2
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=412&Itemid=260
I guess our member "Rewind" is mixing up the different "Behringer's". But the Behrimger that Eggg3r is talking of is is using Truextent dias:
https://www.behringer-electric.de/truextent-beryllium/
Regards
Charles