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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
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Old 12th March 2009, 07:05 PM   #1
Yuli_35 is offline Yuli_35  France
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Join Date: May 2007
Default Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers

All,

As asked by few members of the audio community, I’m pleased to share with you (in English) my Project, launched two years ago.
Originally, this project has been launched in order to replace my existing Elipson horus 5 Loudspeakers. I’m working to improve these horus 5 now 8-) .
A bit more than 2 years ago, my knowledge in Loudspeakers creation was really limited (almost null). So I started to post something on a french Forum (as I’m french).
Everything started here : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/p...55&p=170079129
As usual this project aims at the DIY community.

None of schematics, illustrations or information presented here may be used for commercial purposes without my written consent.

Special thank to : Jerome69 (Rodolphe) for his wide support during the project life.

- - - - - Project description - - - - -

Name of these new speakers : ASTASIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euglena)

Technical Specifications :
- Speaker : 3 drivers – Bass Reflex
- Sensibility : 86.5 dB at 1m / 2.83V RMS
- Bandwidth : 29Hz - 40Khz (+3/-3 dB)
- Bandwidth : 50 Hz - 20Khz (+1/-1 dB) (50Hz is an estimate … cannot measure at this Frequency)
- Spécificity : Vent under the Box

Type of Speakers :
- Boomer: Seas - CA22RNX http://www.seas.no/images/stories/pr..._datasheet.pdf
- Medium: Seas - MCA15RCY http://www.seas.no/images/stories/pr...datasheet_.pdf
- Tweeter: VIFA Vifa XT25TG30-04 http://www.tymphany.com/files/produc...T25TG30-04.pdf

Xover Specification:
- The Boomer is filtered using a Linkwitz Riley (Order 2) / 12dB/oct with a Fc set at 500Hz (low pass filter)
- The Medium is filtered using a Linkwitz Riley (Order 2) / 12dB/oct with a Fc set at 500Hz (high pass filter)
- The Medium is filtered using a Linkwitz Riley (Order 4) / 24dB/oct with a Fc set at 3000Hz (Low pass filter)
- The tweeter is filtered using a Linkwitz Riley (Order 4) / 24dB/oct with a Fc set at 3000Hz (high pass filter)

Xover is fairly simple compares to the high level of the filter :
- 5 Capacitors (All Capacitors are MKP – SCR or Audyn Cap QS )
- 4 Self (Air self from Mundorf 1.4mm˛ / Ferrite Self HQ58 type from IT for the boomer)
- 5 resistors (MOX 10W)

- > nothing ESOTERIC here !!!! -

end of part 1 -
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Old 13th March 2009, 01:37 PM   #2
Yuli_35 is offline Yuli_35  France
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Default ASTASIA PROJECT - PART 2 - Measurements

The Xover :
Here is the last version of the xover. Please note that this one is the 4th one (done with the help of Rodolphe)

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Astasia - Plans
- Astasia 1.9 - 27 oct 2006

Measurements Tools && Methodology:
Originally the Drivers have been measured using a CLIO System (impedance as well as SPL ….) but these measurese were not correct.
With the help of “Jerome69”, I’ve build a full measurment system using an electret microphone (the electret has been calibrated)
The tool that has been used to execute the measurement is ARTA (really great tool – and very effective) http://www.fesb.hr/~mateljan/arta/
All the measurement have been done at 1 meter far from the loudspeaker at Tweeter le hight.

* * * * * *LoudSpeakers – Full Measurement* * * * * *

Impedance and electrical phase :
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SPL and Acoustic Phase :
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Please note that the Acoustic phase is Wrong from 8Khz … 20Khz. This is due to the fact that ARTA cannot display the measured phase with the phase compensation of the microphone.

Burst Decay
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CSD Waterfall
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CSD SONOGRAM
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Old 13th March 2009, 01:37 PM   #3
Yuli_35 is offline Yuli_35  France
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Default ASTASIA PROJECT - PART 3 - SPEAKERs MEASUREMENTS

* * * * * * The CA22 RNX :* * * * * *
Impédance :
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SPL:
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Burst Decay
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CSD Waterfall
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CSD SONOGRAM
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Thiel & small Parameters
These parameter have been evaluated using ARTA and a closed box Methodology.
Fs = 38.55 Hz
Re = 5.80 ohms[dc]
Le = 1531.29 uH
L2 = 610.14 uH
R2 = 14.78 ohms
Qt = 0.42
Qes = 0.51
Qms = 2.34
Mms = 22.33 grams
Rms = 2.309682 kg/s
Cms = 0.000763 m/N
Vas = 55.23 liters
Sd= 226.98 cm^2
Bl = 7.820266 Tm
ETA = 0.59 %
Lp(2.83V/1m) = 91.23 dB
Closed Box Method:
Box volume = 65.00 liters
Diameter= 17.00 cm[/b]

* * * * * *The MCA15RCY:* * * * * *
Impedance :
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SPL:
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Burst Decay:
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CSD Mode Waterfall :
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CSD SONOGRAM :
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T&S Parameters :
Fs = 56.27 Hz
Re = 5.87 ohms[dc]
Le = 1021.97 uH
L2 = 418.66 uH
R2 = 14.08 ohms
Qt = 0.29
Qes = 0.33
Qms = 2.12
Mms = 7.77 grams
Rms = 1.295488 kg/s
Cms = 0.001030 m/N
Vas = 9.28 liters
Sd= 80.12 cm^2
Bl = 6.943129 Tm
ETA = 0.48 %
Lp(2.83V/1m) = 90.22 dB
Closed Box Method:
Box volume = 4.00 liters
Diameter= 10.10 cm[/b]

* * * * * *The XT25-TG30-4* * * * * *
Impedance :
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SPL:
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Burst Decay
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CSD Waterfall
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CSD SONOGRAM
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Old 13th March 2009, 01:37 PM   #4
Yuli_35 is offline Yuli_35  France
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Default ASTASIA - PHOTOS

Astasia – how do they look like :

Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers

Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers

Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
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Old 13th March 2009, 01:37 PM   #5
Yuli_35 is offline Yuli_35  France
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Default ASTASIA PROJECT - Listening comments

* * * * * * SO WHAT .... * * * * * *
i will not do any comments on these loudspeakers, because it is always difficult to speak about its own "baby" 8-)
However, people have decided to reproduce these loudspeakers, and i will post here after the translation of their listening tests.

The First Diyer that deiced to do the Astasia is Denis

You will find his post here : http://www.quebecaudio.com/forums/in...howtopic=18016

And here is the translation of the two marvelous listening tests he did : [To be continued]
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Old 14th March 2009, 11:25 PM   #6
frozen wing is offline frozen wing  Canada
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i have just heard the astasia that denis built today. i have to say that it is the best 3 way i have ever heard. I own a 3 way loudspeaker and the astasia are simply better. The blend of all three drivers is perfect nothing forward or behind. the bass goes very low. We listened to diffrent kind of music from soft rock to jazz to classic and every time its like if the musician where in front of you! Without a doubt, this is going to be next my project.
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Old 15th March 2009, 03:17 AM   #7
e_fortier is offline e_fortier  Canada
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Astasia Prject - 3 ways loudspeakers
Default Simply amazing

Bonjour Gilles,

I had the pleasure to listen to the Astasia today in Montreal in a very well organized DIY get together and I must say that even though I normally prefer full range for their coherence the Astasia blew my mind away. We listened to Jazz, Classical, Rock and everything was perfect; perfect bass (not too over powereing, amazing mids and airy sparkly highs) I must say that if I had the money to invest in a great speaker it would be the one. Simply amazing work. Thanks for sharing your design and allowing a few DIYers (about 30) to listen to that great design. Congrats to you and Denis.

Eric
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Old 15th March 2009, 12:32 PM   #8
Yuli_35 is offline Yuli_35  France
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Join Date: May 2007
hi Frozen Wings 8-)


thank you for your comments.
As you mentionned it ... when these loudspeakers are singing ... it is amazing how we have the impression that the artist is in the room. My little daughter (16 months) alway turn her head looking for the singer when These Loudspeakers are playing .... and this is not the case with the other loudspeakers i've (commercial ones).
I would not say that the Astasia are the best 3 ways in the world but considering the price ... it is hard to find something better in the same range (of price) - From what I was able to listen.
I suppose that If I double the budget in speakers, I could do something even better 8-)

Great if you want to do a copy of these loudspeakers, ... I would be happy to help. In France there is another guy that is building at that time a copy of these Loudspeakers. ... So if you go ahead ... this will be the 4th copy ...

hi Eric,

Thank you for you honnesty.... because most of the time people who like "full range" loudspeakers are not friends of such Loudspeakers with 3 speakers are high number of components in the filter ... much more than one per speaker.
I'm really proud if you like them .... and appreciate a lot your comments. .... in clear we can say that Denis did a great job !
I'm Happy to see that you were also happy tolisten to these loudspeakers.
as you mentionned it It tooks me months to finalized the design of these Astasia, and remember that you were listening the 4th version of the Filter.

another time thanks for your comments .

Best regards. - Gilles.
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Old 15th March 2009, 02:04 PM   #9
Daze is online now Daze  Canada
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Hello,

I too listened to the Anastasia that Denis built and I must say, and I don't mean to throw a wrench in the discussion, but for me, this design simply did not sound so good.

Althought a lot of work went into this design, I felt it did present a good intehration of the drivers, but with an obvious lack of definition and texture. The main issu for me was the fact that textures were not very refined and harmonics were mostly missing.

I understand that the speaker is impressive in terms if dynamics, extension and sheer loudness capabilities, but to my taste it really lacked the resolution of most of the other speakers presented at this get together. It is of course a matter of taste, but I do have good ears and that tendency to obscure details, lack of resolution of the finer texture and lack of real transparency is definitely something that could be worked in this design.

I'll comment more later if I see the need,
__________________
Daze
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Old 15th March 2009, 03:07 PM   #10
Yuli_35 is offline Yuli_35  France
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Hi Daze,

Thank you for this Feedback.

As already explained before this is the 4th version of the filter, It is possible that this xover can be improved in order to reach the level of details you mentionned.

Could you please detail more precisely the "issue".
You wrote : "textures were not very refined and harmonics were mostly missing"
Ok . do you remember on what kind of record you were listening? What istrument/voice ? and what system was playing at that time (was it the CJ + Denis's Amplifier ?)

On my side i do not focus on details too much compares to some Hifiste people, for me the life in music is much more important (foot tapping) When I say "life in music", i mean dynamic, and overall restitution. Anotherthing which is also important is the quality of the Harmonics - OR to have a low harmonic distortion. I do not yet have measure these loudspeakers in that sense, but this will be done next week. 8-)
However I didnot think that these speakers were so "poor " in Harmonics.

So next week hopefully I will comeback to you with measurement figures, and it will be much clearer for everyone.

On your side Daze, Did you present any Loudspeaker ? And if so, what kind of Loudspeaker was it ?

Thanks in advance for your "more detail feedback".

Best regards. Gilles.
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