What causes listening "fatigue"?

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How did you get the graphs? Here's a representative sample of what the program gives me (OSX version, running on latest update of Mountain Lion), from a remastered - "demastered" might be more appropriate - offering that is markedly worse (less range, more fatigue) than the original release.

Sorry I should have mentioned that the graphs were old ones I had used some other software in the past to get!! They are not from the TT-DR software :eek:

I have to dig that up I still haven't managed to find it. I grabbed them from another post I did a couple of years ago.

Tony.
 
Isn't the converse also possible if the compensation is wrong, though? An elevated upper mid and treble relative to the lower mid and bass?
IMO every baffle step compensation is "wrong" because this step exists only in the forward direction of sound radiation but it doesn't exist when you consider the lateral radiation of the same speaker. All the wave lenghts owning this "baffle step" are mostly omnidirectional so every compensation of the baffle step modifies the reverberant field by reinforcing low frecuencies and taking the risk of greater room-sound interaction.
 
6db total! Yes, that's an important point - thanks for pointing it out.

For me, the flat part can extend up to almost 2K without a big difference in tonal balance. I just settled on 400-500 Hz as the start of the downward slope because it seems to be the best balance in my room.
This reminds of the whole vicious cycle that seems to part and parcel of a lot of audio: people want intense, dynamic sound, that which registers in the brain as being like the 'real' thing, that has plenty of guts to it. The trouble is, this only happens when the midrange and above is working correctly, minimal audible distortion, at high SPLs. Next problem, most people won't accept that the chain prior to the speakers is that which is most at fault when the sound is bad in this region. So, an easy solution is to taper off the response in these higher frequences, junk them in some fashion, keep the troublesome things nice and quiet, a low level nuisance at worst. But, now the sound doesn't sound, well, 'real' - it might be pleasant, warm, all those other adjectives - but it doesn't have the bite, the 'you are there' vitality that 'natural' sound has. So, up the volume to pump some guts into the playback, and now bass resonances start to play havoc in the listening space, it gets messy in this area. Finally, the listener becomes sufficiently dissatisfied with what he hears to say, okay, let's try a different lot of gear to 'fix' this ...

And so the cycle starts again ...
 
Next problem, most people won't accept that the chain prior to the speakers is that which is most at fault when the sound is bad in this region.
And so the cycle starts again ...

Yep, as my hip hop clients would put it I'm "representing" There are sooooooooo many mechanical things to wrong before a clean flat fr amp becomes a factor. A good example, you will find a much larger consensus among mastering engineers on suitable speakers than you will on suitable power amps. Those records you are listening to, they were mastered with electronics and power amps from a to z, but only a few speakers such as B&Ws Dunlavy's and a few more have become standards there. In fact you will find the two aforementioned are quite representative. There is a reason for this. Yet the ratio of available speakers to the available power amps is overwhelming. My guess is most of us have found there are quite a few suitably *neutral* power amps and only a handful of speakers that make the almost impossible grade of approaching neutrality, the real goal of any hifi system and certainly what the mastering engineers were striving for. Yep we are looking for the ultimate median. Please note that I am not saying mastering engineers are looking for speakers with extremely high dynamic capability. In fact we are aware that the vast majority of all speakers are not going to handle it. There is also an awareness that the amplifier is highly highly highly unlikely to ever be the limiting factor in neutrality and dynamic range, therefore direct radiators are representative and a few of those are sort of, approaching neutrality. A few speakers, many amps. It almost goes without saying that any piece of electronics that could possibly affect the critical mid-range would be ousted from that list quickly and roundly, yet the list is large. There are a hell of a lot of neutral and powerful amps. Amps. Not the problem.
 
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As I've mentioned before, and many people also echo, the simplest technique is to use an amp enormously more powerful than it needs to be for the situation - the huge headroom approach. If you want a car that will cruise nicely at 60mph then you buy one capable of 160mph ...
 
As I've mentioned before, and many people also echo, the simplest technique is to use an amp enormously more powerful than it needs to be for the situation - the huge headroom approach. If you want a car that will cruise nicely at 60mph then you buy one capable of 160mph ...

Well hell yes. Very good amps are now almost dirt cheap compared to speakers, there is simply no reason not to go with high current amps if you do not have high efficiency speakers or why not even if you do? What you can do is pay a lot of money for a nice piece of artwork to impress others if you like, but you will get the about same amp. High powered amps? You bet.
 
Measured or truly audible? I really, really liked the Hafler DH220 but only used it on Event 20/20s for mixing. On Khorns it might have bugged me. I still think I might pick up another Hafler and redo it just because I trust them to stay in spec so long.
Pete, the biggest issue I had was low level distortion, that below 1w class AB garbage. Dynamics were great, normal power level was typically < 5 watts. No one was allowed to touch after brother toasted another speaker set "playing" with the EQ while trying to impress his new GF :rolleyes:
 
Common sense is a consensus, it can only be exceeded by the exceptional consensus. (-:
Hey, we have some sort of consensus!

There is no substitute for headroom, I use 900Wrms per channel in my stereo.
My Tannoys compression tweeter which can handle 25W runs off a 175W amp.
Although that is partially because that is the smallest amp MC2 Audio make.
 
As I've mentioned before, and many people also echo, the simplest technique is to use an amp enormously more powerful than it needs to be for the situation - the huge headroom approach. If you want a car that will cruise nicely at 60mph then you buy one capable of 160mph ...

Except that the car is only as good as the tires. The drivers and speaker design are where the rubber meets the road.
 
Except that the car is only as good as the tires. The drivers and speaker design are where the rubber meets the road.

Like a neighbors wife's car, Toyota Prius, White, Dark tinted windows, Pimp'n stereo, 17" custom chrome black wheels all around and 245 17 R35's

It was anti eco to the extreme as they both are lead foots. It was just so wrong wrong wrong. Had to move due to buying a custom Miata convertible that was dropped so low couldn't drive over the speed bumps. Rather embarrassing to have your car stuck like a teeter totter over the 9 to get here

Psst Badman, don't forget the torsion bars and stronger engine mounts ;)
 
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