What constitutes a "PA speaker" versus "hifi". As a designer I see the goals as identical.
6 dB total or 6 dB per octave? 6 dB total drop from 50 Hz to 10 kHz is what I do as well, but flat from say 200 Hz to 2 kHz - that's free field though from 200 Hz up. In room might fall more because of the prominence of HF absorption in any room.
How did you get the graphs? Here's a representative sample of what the program gives me (OSX version, running on latest update of Mountain Lion), from a remastered - "demastered" might be more appropriate - offering that is markedly worse (less range, more fatigue) than the original release.
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Analyzed folder: [redacted]/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/Music/Pearl Jam/Ten (Legacy Deluxe Edition redux, Brendan O' Brien remix)
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DR Peak RMS Filename
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DR6 over -7.89 dB 01 Once.m4a
DR7 over -7.30 dB 02 Even Flow.m4a
DR6 over -7.27 dB 03 Alive.m4a
DR6 over -6.59 dB 04 Why Go.m4a
DR6 over -7.21 dB 05 Black.m4a
DR6 over -7.18 dB 06 Jeremy.m4a
DR7 -0.00 dB -8.46 dB 07 Oceans.m4a
DR6 over -7.00 dB 08 Porch.m4a
DR6 over -7.81 dB 09 Garden.m4a
DR6 over -7.10 dB 10 Deep.m4a
DR6 -0.00 dB -10.00 dB 11 Release.m4a
DR6 over -7.88 dB 12 Brother.m4a
DR6 over -7.80 dB 13 Just A Girl.m4a
DR7 over -9.06 dB 14 Breath And A Scream [Demo].m4a
DR6 over -7.11 dB 15 State Of Love And Trust.m4a
DR6 -0.05 dB -7.22 dB 16 2,000 Mile Blues.m4a
DR7 -0.11 dB -9.71 dB 17 Evil Little Goat.m4a
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Number of files: 17
Official DR value: DR6
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And even that I had to hunt for in the album's iTunes folder!
6db total! Yes, that's an important point - thanks for pointing it out.
For me, the flat part can extend up to almost 2K without a big difference in tonal balance. I just settled on 400-500 Hz as the start of the downward slope because it seems to be the best balance in my room.
Yes to both, I say.The passive tone control should give you more adjustment that you ever need. Certainly worth a try.
Drapes, soft furniture, carpet and rugs sure do help. I also made large acoustic panels for my room, which help tremendously to tame the midrange peak in the room.
For my room I use use carpets, heavy drapes, and seventeen ASC tubetraps. The B&W speakers have two tone controls that I leave in the midrange cut position.
Not a damn thing. They are both identical when done correctly. One looks better in your house, sometimes. I think we all know what PWK produced and what he would have produced with todays drivers to work with when he started. And all while wearing his lapel pin and living by it. Here's to you Mr. Paul. It's interesting to note that Heresys wound up as PAs in churches. I'll bet there is a market for a similar small but good looking PA in that area now. Especially in white. Of course there are some churches in California where red black and green would be great as well. But here in the south, we could use an accurate but reasonably priced good looking small PA in white. At least here in the south
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Pano said:
I'm not denying it. Just worrying that it's fixed in a passive speaker (and probably most active speakers) but is affected by the listening room and maybe should be adjustable, ideally. Rod Elliott says this:
So I'm suggesting that the uneven frequency response some people feel contributes to fatigue may be exacerbated by the wrong baffle step compensation rather than none at all.
Here is another thought. Let's say you have a decent modern power amp capable of 100 watts or so and you think it may be running out of steam on peaks or transients, causing "fatigue". Well you can easily trouble shoot this starting at the amp. Go to rear of amp, locate cables running to the speaker cabs, see if they are small and lack horns. if one or both of these conditions are met you have eliminated the amplification as the source of the issue. Raise the speakers from 2 to 4 feet and place high quality larger speakers with horns beneath them. Now switch the wires to this set of speakers. You most likely have just increased your amplification power by magnitudes, and significantly lowered the the THD as well. You have now sucessfully upgraded both your amp speakers and have some speaker stands for free. Thank you.
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I think this is unlikely (though not impossible). An elevated mid-band (lower mid-band to most) is perhaps the least invasive error in freq. response.
In fact many *prefer* this for a "warmer" presentation, and in some respects because it necessarily reduces the perception of treble and bass - which are far more often within the characterization of "fatiguing".
With an eq. it's also pretty easy for most listener's to judge this particular aspect themselves.
I'd really only expect to have the mid-band characterized as "fatiguing" if there was a particularly narrow HIGH "peak" (due to modes) in the lower mid.s from exceptionally poor loudspeaker placement. If that happens - just move the loudspeaker some.
BTW, 3-4 db is often about right depending on the design and proximity to floor and walls.
... there are somethings than can cause fatigue , somethings from active components or somethings from passive components . In general , fatigue in my experience come from high frequency noise or too much NFB . This can appear in a power supply with bad quality capacitors , in a ic that uses very high NFB like an opamp in an output with low quality low pass filter etc etc , but high frecuency causes very bad fatigue .
Isn't the converse also possible if the compensation is wrong, though? An elevated upper mid and treble relative to the lower mid and bass?
That's a more likely condition - depressed lower mid-band leading to "boom" and "sizzle".
It's still not *that* likely however because a "dip" in response that leads to that sort of reaction really needs to be strong AND have a wide bandwidth.
Strong dip's sometimes occur with modes, but rarely do they cover a wide bandwidth.
I could however see this occurring with a poorly designed small monitor loudspeaker placed in a nearly free-field condition.
i.e. very small baffle with pressure loss starting to occur around 900 Hz and then having a "boosted" upper bass response from a very poor bass reflex alignment.
-you know, Bose.
LOL! Whole post is super.
Well hell. It's just the truth. If I were one of these new speaker companies producing high efficiency speakers, and there are a few now, I would *quickly* as in right this instant... adopt Paul Klipsch's business model. It really has not been used since his death. His business model was based on the word... "bullschiit" ...as in *no* bullschiit, no obfuscation, no layperson overwhelming technical jargon, no, well no bullschiit, and especially no "my bullschiit is the real thing bullschiit" either. The truth is speakers need to be highly efficient as a starting point. The rest? Make sure your speakers sound and measure up to what they are selling for. Wow, magic! The truth is now magical. Sad really.
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I don't know. There is nothing much at all on the CD sleve with respect to recording/mastering. All there is is XL recordings and a url XL Recordings edit: one thing that was interesting, a freind had Elephant on his ipod and when we played that back it was VERY different, no harshness at all, but also seemed to be lacking in some way...
It will be interesting to see how it sounds when I finally get my active crossover done and have the 10" drivers covering below 300Hz. It may be a case that there is a lot of low frequency energy that the little 5" drivers are just not dealing with very well.
Tony.
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