Right, but logic dictates that removal of margin of error should always be done when it comes without cost, therefore nothing to be lost and everything to be gained by eliminating all possible dynamic issues via overbuilt electronics,
Warning stream of hifi logic consciousness......... we move up hierarchy to next enemy in battle knowing that the dead warrior (amp non linearity and headroom) behind you is *good and dead*, not merely mortally wounded. (-:
Up next: the enemy known as mass and inertia . Speakers. Full range plasma = unobtainium, Therefore least mass possible to linearly a move given load we need best mass to air transformer, That is and always will be horns.We are already at horn zenith....... therefore choose your particular horn poison. my guess is sound is round like a ball and has no bumps until it hits something. therefore round conical horns with critical damping at the inevitable parallel mouth surfaces. Next up ......Bass horns...., PWK understood the room was unavoidable and therefore we design it into the bass horn ending up with a pressure zone speaker in effect, no out of phase crap from the wall, the walls were the horn,,,, There is nothing else to see here folks, this is all there is. A Khorn with smoother rounder hf horns is about all we can get without massless plasma. Anything radically different is a bad compromise or bullschiiit. PWK hit the plate in 48
Warning stream of hifi logic consciousness......... we move up hierarchy to next enemy in battle knowing that the dead warrior (amp non linearity and headroom) behind you is *good and dead*, not merely mortally wounded. (-:
Up next: the enemy known as mass and inertia . Speakers. Full range plasma = unobtainium, Therefore least mass possible to linearly a move given load we need best mass to air transformer, That is and always will be horns.We are already at horn zenith....... therefore choose your particular horn poison. my guess is sound is round like a ball and has no bumps until it hits something. therefore round conical horns with critical damping at the inevitable parallel mouth surfaces. Next up ......Bass horns...., PWK understood the room was unavoidable and therefore we design it into the bass horn ending up with a pressure zone speaker in effect, no out of phase crap from the wall, the walls were the horn,,,, There is nothing else to see here folks, this is all there is. A Khorn with smoother rounder hf horns is about all we can get without massless plasma. Anything radically different is a bad compromise or bullschiiit. PWK hit the plate in 48
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And you had best believe I would risk it all for them, Seriously. Have done the tweeter. clear clean hissy,
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an experiment I did back 33-34 years ago involved a neon bulb modulated with an amp. This started to get on the dangerous side when I tried the same with helical zenon tubes. Bottom line, high temp glass blows or rather rings insanely.
Fun experiment was to connect a B52 landing lamp to an amp and put magnets as closet to the filament as possible (huge gap), had a massive horse shoe mag to mess with. Glass is not for speakers
Fun experiment was to connect a B52 landing lamp to an amp and put magnets as closet to the filament as possible (huge gap), had a massive horse shoe mag to mess with. Glass is not for speakers
There was some speaker back around 85-86? that ionized air to produce full range sound, large open frame electrostat. The rep who showed it @ CES was taken to the hospital at the end of the three days. Sick as a dog nearly died do to the exposure. Could not do laundry because of the ions the drier produces, would have violent nausea when a thunderstorm came near, turned his life upside down to this day.
Ozone is toxic to all life forms. A free radical that destroys cells, whatever cell they come in contact with indoors and out. Wouldn't want to be anything living down wind
I do believe they tried to remedy the situation with a replacement design that was rumored to be a bag of argon gas suspended in a open frame. Argon used DC to bias and at a far lower voltage negating the ozone issue, efficiency issues ensued. The company I believe disappeared shortly thereafter
Ozone is toxic to all life forms. A free radical that destroys cells, whatever cell they come in contact with indoors and out. Wouldn't want to be anything living down wind
I do believe they tried to remedy the situation with a replacement design that was rumored to be a bag of argon gas suspended in a open frame. Argon used DC to bias and at a far lower voltage negating the ozone issue, efficiency issues ensued. The company I believe disappeared shortly thereafter
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lol why dont you ask Bjork to borrow her plasma PA? Personally though, and given that I work with EHT I would leave the pipe dreams for the coffeeshop. Any DIYer that has taken the time to read his subject already knows horns are efficient. Although youd better have a 8way system if line phase lag is a concern to you. Perfect concept perhaps but deeply flawed in realisation. What about AMT? That would also come into the Acoustic Impedance Transformer category, no?
The use of Argon and DC bias wouldnt negate O3 generation either. It would also increase dielectric polarisation issues.
The use of Argon and DC bias wouldnt negate O3 generation either. It would also increase dielectric polarisation issues.
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It was bagged argon massless vs open air massless. Polarization was akin to biasing electrolytic caps in a crossover, a set amp etc.
AMT have their own issues, like rising response. Using two rt4001's in my new design. One of which is disassembled making measurements, perhaps make another design but modified back plate for dipole operation.
I see what you mean. The baffle/room step is somewhat of a conundrum but can be made to work.
Design the baffle/crossover without the room (things close to the speaker first), then fix the speaker/room. Sometimes when these are combined into a single correction it can look like a reduced baffle step correction. Although this can be good for a given situation, it may not be completely correct.
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Technically perhaps, in practice the compromise opportunities exist. If it bothers you, consider it when designing your next baffle.
Some see the amp as the issue, some see the speaker. Its like seeing a half empty glass.
If most of your work is tweaking cheap amps, most likely you will think that the amp is the issue because you see a lot of problems with those amps. If your work is chasing the best amps in the world then you will find out that amplifiers are cheap and the weakest link is the speaker.
The more you know about amps the more you think that amps are not the issue. The more you know about speakers the more you think that speakers are the issue. This is a proven observation.
I often mention that small amps/speakers can be made to sound "big", but require expertise and good parts. Without knowledge, it is safer to go big on amp and speaker.
What we need from small amp is the ability to provide high current for fast transient. Many 5W chip amp have the ability to source current more than 3A. Of course it is safer to go with overrated output power but remember that in many cases of amp design you have to choose between better sound or higher power!
I wish the amp vs speaker issue has been solved. Now the other issue about small speaker to provide comparable performance as big speaker.
Of course size matters. But if we put money into the equation, bigger is not always better.
I often think that the major reason people go big is because they cannot make small speaker that sound satisfying. Go big and you dont need knowledge to benefit from it.
In this case I think I understand Frank. He tweaks a lot so I believe once in a while he may have achieved what make me prefer a small system because even bass satisfaction can be achieved with small speakers.
I still cannot formulate the "secret" (except that it has always been about phase!) but experience makes me believe that i can achieve it again and again
Presumably you have one of your small speakers that sounds big that you can show us/ demonstrate to someone..?
(Lots of contributors seem to have stories about the time they achieved 'invisible speakers' etc., but somehow they never seem to have them now. But they could do it again if they wanted to...)
(Lots of contributors seem to have stories about the time they achieved 'invisible speakers' etc., but somehow they never seem to have them now. But they could do it again if they wanted to...
)Presumably you have one of your small speakers that sounds big that you can show us/ demonstrate to someone..?
(Lots of contributors seem to have stories about the time they achieved 'invisible speakers' etc., but somehow they never seem to have them now. But they could do it again if they wanted to...
Of course I understand the issue about boosting ego and hiding behind computer screen
I have more than ten pairs of woofers above ten inches but i prefer to listen to my bookshelf.
Yes, there is possibility that im not good enough at designing 3-way speakers, but it has been years and i feel i have learnt quite a lot. But yes, 3-way is always more difficult.
Beside complexity issue, my conclusion is what i have stated previously: if we put MONEY into the equation, bigger is not always better. Why so? Get used to a low distortion big woofer, and you cannot accept the bass from high distortion woofers anymore.
Dayton rs is the most expensive big woofer i have used. But i have used more expensive midbasses.
And of course you can come and audition my speakers
Jay, that's the conundrum,I still cannot formulate the "secret" (except that it has always been about phase!) but experience makes me believe that i can achieve it again and again
. Up to now, I've come across about nearly 10 people on the Net who "get it", in one way or another - never actually heard what they have, but I know from their description of the experience that they managed to get "The Right Stuff" ... Really, there is no 'absolute' secret - more than anything else it's attention to detail, and persistence. Having big armoury to do the job can help a great deal, but also can manage to make a bigger mess of things - I've heard some gawd awful systems using mega components ...
One way of describing it, is that you get intensity of sound, without any drawbacks - spot on bass is then an optional extra. Plenty of systems can belt you over the head with their oomph, but it's an acquired taste - and for a lot of people it just becomes a loud racket after a while ...
Presumably you have one of your small speakers that sounds big that you can show us/ demonstrate to someone..?
(Lots of contributors seem to have stories about the time they achieved 'invisible speakers' etc., but somehow they never seem to have them now. But they could do it again if they wanted to...
I still got mine but they are big speakers delivering life-sized sound.
I see no audible reason to ever get rid of them.
That said I try and make them visually unobtrusive in the room as the effect disappears almost always once I see the speakers (not just mine but all others that are 'audibly invisible' too).
To me speakers which visually dominate a room will never audibly disappear unless I'm blindfolded or close my eyes. Us humans are predominantly visual animals after all (McGurk effect anyone?).
If I see speakers I KNOW where the sound comes from and it is very much more difficult to achieve the 'invisibility' effect.
Hence I always listen with closed eyes whenever I evaluate any speaker. At home I can do other things to distract myself from my speakers visual presence.
I consider any sighted test as completely useless when it comes to audio.
Hence I always listen with closed eyes whenever I evaluate any speaker. At home I can do other things to distract myself from my speakers visual presence.
I consider any sighted test as completely useless when it comes to audio.
Simply go listen to a pair of John Blue JB3 speakers. Small, but sound big. They won't play loud, but within their limits they sound much bigger than they are. They can do the disappearing act.
Nothing fancy, just a tiny driver in a solid, ported box.
That's fine, but as so often happens, something that sounds good to one person and their taste in music, doesn't to another. I don't think I'd really have a use for them and I don't think they'd disappear with the music I listen to.
Designer Tommy Wu says
JohnBlue Audio
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