Hi,
of course there is a possibility to build such a kind of horn with many layers of 4 mm plywood. But the intersting thing is that the version cut by CNC machines has every 2 cm ring by ring an area with glue between. So therefore the resonance is different than the version where you glue the plywood layers. As Till my partner mentioned in the posting above we have the possibility to cut different project at once to minimize the scrap of the wood. So stay tuned. These horns are different and are availlable for diy also.
@tyimo: Do you have the TSP parameters of your driver ? Simulation is no problem.
The idea of the filter is not new. KEF has used a similar kind of filter in the 60s in their tml, placed at lamda/2. It was a plate of wood withh many holes in it. Telefunken has made some nice examinations about this in their open baffle constructions of their tube radios.
But I was the first one who used this kind of filter in the throat of a Horn. The condition of this filter is a secret, due to the fact that it is a science for itself and only availlable for the speakers made for the market. Just this: you have the possibility to variy the output of upper bass and mid range gain in combination with the possibility to change the thraot dimension. You have a powerful tool to adapt the output of the horn to your listening room.
Greetings
Raffi
of course there is a possibility to build such a kind of horn with many layers of 4 mm plywood. But the intersting thing is that the version cut by CNC machines has every 2 cm ring by ring an area with glue between. So therefore the resonance is different than the version where you glue the plywood layers. As Till my partner mentioned in the posting above we have the possibility to cut different project at once to minimize the scrap of the wood. So stay tuned. These horns are different and are availlable for diy also.
@tyimo: Do you have the TSP parameters of your driver ? Simulation is no problem.
The idea of the filter is not new. KEF has used a similar kind of filter in the 60s in their tml, placed at lamda/2. It was a plate of wood withh many holes in it. Telefunken has made some nice examinations about this in their open baffle constructions of their tube radios.
But I was the first one who used this kind of filter in the throat of a Horn. The condition of this filter is a secret, due to the fact that it is a science for itself and only availlable for the speakers made for the market. Just this: you have the possibility to variy the output of upper bass and mid range gain in combination with the possibility to change the thraot dimension. You have a powerful tool to adapt the output of the horn to your listening room.
Greetings
Raffi
@tyimo
Hi tyimo,
enclosed you find the simulation of your requested driver. Well I am not really convinced about it. you have a good bass responce, but it will not play very deep indeed.
There is an alternative driver I can recomend, very cheap with tremendous quality for its price.
http://www.monacor.de/de/produktseite_gesamtprogramm.php?artid=2155&spr=DE&typ=u
I can post a simulation for this driver this evening
Hi tyimo,
enclosed you find the simulation of your requested driver. Well I am not really convinced about it. you have a good bass responce, but it will not play very deep indeed.
There is an alternative driver I can recomend, very cheap with tremendous quality for its price.
http://www.monacor.de/de/produktseite_gesamtprogramm.php?artid=2155&spr=DE&typ=u
I can post a simulation for this driver this evening
Attachments
Hi Raffi!
Thank you very much!!
Yes, but I think the 166ESR is also not much better. I mean in the low bass.
Could you give me the the box details for my driver?
(Rear chamber volume, Horn lenght, AH, AM?)
I will look for the Monacor driver you suggested. I think I can buy them in Hungary. Anyway, I am waiting for the Monacor sims.
Thanks again!!!
Tyimo
Thank you very much!!
Yes, but I think the 166ESR is also not much better. I mean in the low bass.
Could you give me the the box details for my driver?
(Rear chamber volume, Horn lenght, AH, AM?)
I will look for the Monacor driver you suggested. I think I can buy them in Hungary. Anyway, I am waiting for the Monacor sims.
Thanks again!!!
Tyimo
Hi Will,
our favorite drivers for horn enclosures have the ideal parameters for BR. That means QTS 0,35-040. Nevertheless drivers with QTS 0,40 up to 0,7 run also very good indeed because they need bigger rear chambers and in combination with low FS you get a very deep and open bass response with great 3 D image. I think the driver in the first Klipsch had also high QTS and had a killer bass.
Tyimo, enclosed a sim for the Monacor 155X. Please note that the driver does not make that clear treble of a fostex, but is very dynamic. Due to its CMS of 0,7 mm/N he can play extremely loud without limitations. The fostex 17 cm drivers have 1,5 to 1,8 mm/N with exception of the 168Sigma with 0,98 mm/N.
If haven`t a chance to get them in hungary I can send you a pair if needed.
Greetings
Raffi
our favorite drivers for horn enclosures have the ideal parameters for BR. That means QTS 0,35-040. Nevertheless drivers with QTS 0,40 up to 0,7 run also very good indeed because they need bigger rear chambers and in combination with low FS you get a very deep and open bass response with great 3 D image. I think the driver in the first Klipsch had also high QTS and had a killer bass.
Tyimo, enclosed a sim for the Monacor 155X. Please note that the driver does not make that clear treble of a fostex, but is very dynamic. Due to its CMS of 0,7 mm/N he can play extremely loud without limitations. The fostex 17 cm drivers have 1,5 to 1,8 mm/N with exception of the 168Sigma with 0,98 mm/N.
If haven`t a chance to get them in hungary I can send you a pair if needed.
Greetings
Raffi
Attachments
Klangform said:
Hi Raffi,
Your approach looks very interesting ;-) It's really kind of you to provide the description of how such as high-end design as Replikon works !
I`m also interested in some construction details for SP-155X horn (i have 2 of them unused, can`t wait to try something new
.Monacor SP-200X is much better performer in mid- and high- freqs and it has also CMS of 0.77 - would you be so kind and show the parameters and design details for this driver ? http://www.monacor.de/de/produktseite_suche.php?artid=2157&spr=DE&typ=full
thank you in advance,
vladimir
Klangform said:
Hi Raffi,
Many thanks for that.
I always thought the JX92 would need a big chamber but 20L is a big mother !
Tell me one thing, when you scale your horns (for different drivers) , do you maintain the overall profile geometry and just increase the width of the horns to get the desired chamber volume ?
regards,
will.
Hi Will,
we only construct a horn due to the parameter of the driver. I do not think that a horn will run efficient if you have a horn design and try out different drivers. That means every driver needs it own horn design.
The basis of construction is the FS of a driver. The horn is coordinated to that frequency, because it does not make any sense to coordinate it lower than fs of the driver, because You want the driver do something what he cannot really do.
Therefore the geometry and the speaker design is done always for one driver.
@ Vladimir:
The sp200x is a very good driver. But the quality of a driver depends alway how you use it. I don`t know hoy you used the 155x, but he needs a closed volume 9-12 Liter and a vented Volume of 20-22 Liters. Dont bother of the QTB. The drivers sound in that volume very open with a gread soundstage, not only located in the sweet spot.
A design for the 155x is already done with the "UNIKON". Just take a look at http://www.klangform-akustik.de
We are planning a horn design for the 200x. Just try this driver in appr. 45-55 Liter vented.
The construction parameters for the 155x Horn are:
Rear Chamber: 25Liters
Length: 0,7 meter
AH: 60-70 cm²
AM: 1300cm²
exponential
Well there is one thing left to say. I am a little bit worried if we tell you how we find the best fit enclosure for a driver unless we do not use the TSP primarily for that. We believe that a driver needs a defined volume in its back to reach a deep 3 d stereo image without beeing nailed to the sweet spot. And this method cannot be calculated on basis of parameters based on Thiele and Small. But I think we open up a new thread for this. It is very interesting because you can reach sound solutions which you never expect.
Greetings
Raffi
we only construct a horn due to the parameter of the driver. I do not think that a horn will run efficient if you have a horn design and try out different drivers. That means every driver needs it own horn design.
The basis of construction is the FS of a driver. The horn is coordinated to that frequency, because it does not make any sense to coordinate it lower than fs of the driver, because You want the driver do something what he cannot really do.
Therefore the geometry and the speaker design is done always for one driver.
@ Vladimir:
The sp200x is a very good driver. But the quality of a driver depends alway how you use it. I don`t know hoy you used the 155x, but he needs a closed volume 9-12 Liter and a vented Volume of 20-22 Liters. Dont bother of the QTB. The drivers sound in that volume very open with a gread soundstage, not only located in the sweet spot.
A design for the 155x is already done with the "UNIKON". Just take a look at http://www.klangform-akustik.de
We are planning a horn design for the 200x. Just try this driver in appr. 45-55 Liter vented.
The construction parameters for the 155x Horn are:
Rear Chamber: 25Liters
Length: 0,7 meter
AH: 60-70 cm²
AM: 1300cm²
exponential
Well there is one thing left to say. I am a little bit worried if we tell you how we find the best fit enclosure for a driver unless we do not use the TSP primarily for that. We believe that a driver needs a defined volume in its back to reach a deep 3 d stereo image without beeing nailed to the sweet spot. And this method cannot be calculated on basis of parameters based on Thiele and Small. But I think we open up a new thread for this. It is very interesting because you can reach sound solutions which you never expect.
Greetings
Raffi
Hi Will,
We design for every driver a new horn. Every driver has different parameters, starting with the hornthroat.
If you take two different drivers (a 10cm and a 38cm) and calculate a horn for the same Fm the smaller driver will need a longer Horn to get the dam frequenz because Ah is smaller.
Am will be the same.
Its like playing LoTTo if u design a horn for a special driver and a other driver fitts in it.
best regards Till
We design for every driver a new horn. Every driver has different parameters, starting with the hornthroat.
If you take two different drivers (a 10cm and a 38cm) and calculate a horn for the same Fm the smaller driver will need a longer Horn to get the dam frequenz because Ah is smaller.
Am will be the same.
Its like playing LoTTo if u design a horn for a special driver and a other driver fitts in it.
best regards Till
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