I would like to hear this thing. The description of their design process is actually well written and not full of HiFi snake oil. I don’t know if it’s the best full range driver ever, but it probably sounds pretty good. The Vas is huge though - the cabinet is going to be massive. That’s about the only drawback.
Also, lots of whizzers may scramble the phase of a single membrane because now it is 4 membranes that flap.
Also, lots of whizzers may scramble the phase of a single membrane because now it is 4 membranes that flap.
That's why I would be more interested in the pulse response (shows resonant modes) and distortion graphs - as provided by Hifi-Selbstbau - Startseite for subscribers. Plugging the TS parameters into AJhorn shows that for "acceptable performance" a TQWT needs about 100L.
What is perhaps more interesting is that the F10 Ferrite driver at 2/3 the current cost of the F10 neo at $6,000. It utilizes the same cone, suspension and basket. They only difference appears to be the motor, which is a combination of neodymium and ferrite. Specifications are essentially identical, as are the published frequency response curves. I wonder if the two sound identical as well.
Listening experience aside, even the ancient w4-1320sb I practiced REW with last night walks this measured performance above 500 Hz. A 40 dB drop from 60 Hz to 20 kHz is a stretch without reincarnating Anita O'Day in my living room.
Shouldn't 1/4 octave smoothing be smoother?
Shouldn't 1/4 octave smoothing be smoother?
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IDK, given the cost vs my perceived value of the drives, I have no plan to order anytime soon.
If I feel the need to play with a "high end" wideband driver it would likely be an entry-level Voxativ.
I wouldn't be inclined to put much value on in-room measurements of the Nenuphar < about 300Hz or so. So if we set that aside (as it should be for pretty much any speaker as it's more or less meaningless) it has a reasonably flat response out to about 6KHz, usual lower treble rise from there to about 10KHz (not dissimilar to many Lowthers & equivalent units) drops to flatter output to c.15KHz before finally falling off. Not bad for a larger whizzer cone unit & better than some.
One would have thought so re 1/4 octave. YMMV.
I've been wondering how long it would be before Cube got some more attention here. In fairness to them, unlike many other expensive wideband driver manufacturers, they do at least publish a fairly complete data set of T/S values, FR and impedance which are consistent with themselves (not always the case with some other manufacturers).
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Hi,
indeed measurements do not tell too much about a FR unit´s sound, Cube Audio´s measurements are somewhat strange, and the price is high.
But the Cubes sound pretty good, and the manufacturers have most certainly put a lot of efforts into their drivers. All that has to be paid for, and a (relatively) small scale production in Europe will, pricewise, never be able to compare with Asian sources.
The Cubes are not cheap, but compare nicely to other high-price FR units. Everyone has to choose his poison...
Best regards
Mattes
indeed measurements do not tell too much about a FR unit´s sound, Cube Audio´s measurements are somewhat strange, and the price is high.
But the Cubes sound pretty good, and the manufacturers have most certainly put a lot of efforts into their drivers. All that has to be paid for, and a (relatively) small scale production in Europe will, pricewise, never be able to compare with Asian sources.
The Cubes are not cheap, but compare nicely to other high-price FR units. Everyone has to choose his poison...
Best regards
Mattes
Poison? Yes indeed. 
YouTube
Leaving aside the broader question of FR measurements & sonic characteristics (TBH, I find them very useful myself, although they certainly don't tell you everything) it appears from the caption on the above graph that the response data is a (presumably gated) in-room measurement of the Nenuphar speaker, in which case the LF range should be disregarded as it needs to be measured using different techniques. Be that as it may, Cube to my eyes appear to be one of the better low-volume / boutique manufacturers & while as noted the products certainly are not cheap, they also appear to be decent examples of their particular types (e.g. medium - large[ish] whizzer cone wideband drivers).
YouTube Leaving aside the broader question of FR measurements & sonic characteristics (TBH, I find them very useful myself, although they certainly don't tell you everything) it appears from the caption on the above graph that the response data is a (presumably gated) in-room measurement of the Nenuphar speaker, in which case the LF range should be disregarded as it needs to be measured using different techniques. Be that as it may, Cube to my eyes appear to be one of the better low-volume / boutique manufacturers & while as noted the products certainly are not cheap, they also appear to be decent examples of their particular types (e.g. medium - large[ish] whizzer cone wideband drivers).
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The absence of measurements to justify >$1,000 drivers raises my "snake oil alert" and an overdose of subjective (non-verifiable) superlatives on the company's website only amplifies that. It's obvious that performance has a price tag but when real, not only is audible beyond any doubt but shows in measurements too.
Hi Scott,
sorry, I was a little bit too much in a hurry yesterday... of course measurements can tell a lot, beside the will of the manufacturer to supply reasonable data to those which are able to interprete it, and of course they will lead to first assumptions of how the driver sounds (disregarding the aspect that the driver normally needs box, baffle or whatever).
But after a certain information level I find it hard to judge differences and to conclude a better or worse from them.
Driver 1 has a smoother FR, driver 2 has more of a mountain in the presence region. Which one will sound better?
Driver 3 has a wide breakup region, driver 4 is controlled up to 10kHz, which one is "better"?
Impulse responses do of course also tell more than FR graphs. Personally my first look is always an impedance curve, it tells you of the problem areas every larger fullrange driver has.
And so on... sorry for not being clear on this.
All the best
Mattes
sorry, I was a little bit too much in a hurry yesterday... of course measurements can tell a lot, beside the will of the manufacturer to supply reasonable data to those which are able to interprete it, and of course they will lead to first assumptions of how the driver sounds (disregarding the aspect that the driver normally needs box, baffle or whatever).
But after a certain information level I find it hard to judge differences and to conclude a better or worse from them.
Driver 1 has a smoother FR, driver 2 has more of a mountain in the presence region. Which one will sound better?
Driver 3 has a wide breakup region, driver 4 is controlled up to 10kHz, which one is "better"?
Impulse responses do of course also tell more than FR graphs. Personally my first look is always an impedance curve, it tells you of the problem areas every larger fullrange driver has.
And so on... sorry for not being clear on this.
All the best
Mattes
There are measurements on Cube's website. As far as cost, I suspect that part of the issue is that the cone appears handmade. You can see in some of the photos that the whizzer cones are a bit irregular in shape at the edges. Perhaps, that is an intended functional part of their design, however, it suggests to me that much/all of the cone structure is simply fabricated by hand. Such non-automated, low volume production is inherently higher in cost.
When you subtract the retail price of the F10 neo driver from the price of a Nenuphar speaker, the enclosure is, by far, the most costly element. If you were to build the enclosures yourself, it seems like you could have what is among the very best sounding speakers, said reviewer Peter Brunninger (I've not heard them live for myself.) For little more that the cost of the drivers. Certainly, under $10,000 per pair, I should think. Just a bit of DIY thinking on my part.
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At the Nenuphar site only the sound pressure as a function of frequency is given. And the vertical axis is 10 dB/div instead of the more common 5 dB. It's obvious that hand-made is more expensive than mass production but it also raises questions. Missing are pulse response and distortion - measurements that eventually can be outsourced. Those measurements have more value to me then the opinion of any reviewer. Building enclosures yourself or leaving it to the local carpenter can be much cheaper indeed, and sometimes better performing too, when size isn't an issue.
Cube publishing those measurements suggest they believe in a correlation. This may be one of those drivers designed to be heard ~20-25 degrees off axis. Visually guesstimating it would deliver decently linear direct sound from 100 to 10k.
I didn't state that Cube had published a comprehensive set of measurement. But they have published the most important one.If only viewing a set of measurements would be accurately interpreted to predict the subjective sonics of an given component, especially speakers.
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This article might be interesting (part 2 at end of the article):Testing Loudspeakers: Which Measurements Matter, Part 1 | audioXpress
Very likely, most such units are. However, that applies to the midrange - HF. As noted, I am merely referring to the fact (this is not startling or controversial) that in-room gated measurements are basically inaccurate at LF wavelengths and anything < c. 300Hz or so is best ignored. There is a reason why ground-plane and free-air LF measurements exist.
Lest I am accused of evil bias, as I have already stated several times above I think the Cube drivers are good examples of their type.
Oh ok, but both versions are still expensive compared to an entry-level Voxativ. I do like that Cube publishes specs and measurements, perhaps if I heard them I may feel different about the expense, IDK, and then there is the law of diminishing returns...Oh, I wasn't intending to justify the purchase of either driver. I was only pointing out that an nearly identical specified, constructed and performing version of the F10 neo is available from Cube for about 2/3 the cost.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about irregularities on the wizzers, it may be helpful to reduce some of the "modes".
As our PB discovered, non-parallel surfaces (in a horn) can give better high frequency charachteristics.
I'm not going to purchase this driver though, solely based on price.
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