X - if not destroyed, I have a pair of Panasonic 8" fullrange with metal whizzer cone - they really aren't as bright on top as a lot of 8FR
At least this spec should be friendly for small K
Def_Driver Panasonic Metal Whizzer 8|Vas=33.994
Sd=206
fs=58.193
Mms=13.254
Qms=5.0553
Qes=0.5830
Re=5.466
BL=6.7431
Le=0.255
Unit #1 ~2007 woofer tester data:
Revc = 5.4657 ohms
Fms = 58.1931 Hz
Zmax = 52.8627 ohms
Qes = 0.5830
Qms = 5.0553
Qts = 0.5227
Le = 0.2559 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 161.9504 mm ( 6.3760 in )
Sd =20599.3690 mm^2( 31.9291 in^2)
Vas = 33.9940 L ( 1.2005 ft^3)
BL = 6.7431 N/A
Mms = 13.2638 g
Cms = 563.9369 uM/N
Kms = 1773.2482 N/M
Rms = 0.9593 R mechanical
Efficiency = 1.0798 %
Sensitivity= 92.3513 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 94.0057 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
At least this spec should be friendly for small K
Def_Driver Panasonic Metal Whizzer 8|Vas=33.994
Sd=206
fs=58.193
Mms=13.254
Qms=5.0553
Qes=0.5830
Re=5.466
BL=6.7431
Le=0.255
Unit #1 ~2007 woofer tester data:
Revc = 5.4657 ohms
Fms = 58.1931 Hz
Zmax = 52.8627 ohms
Qes = 0.5830
Qms = 5.0553
Qts = 0.5227
Le = 0.2559 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 161.9504 mm ( 6.3760 in )
Sd =20599.3690 mm^2( 31.9291 in^2)
Vas = 33.9940 L ( 1.2005 ft^3)
BL = 6.7431 N/A
Mms = 13.2638 g
Cms = 563.9369 uM/N
Kms = 1773.2482 N/M
Rms = 0.9593 R mechanical
Efficiency = 1.0798 %
Sensitivity= 92.3513 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 94.0057 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
here's either a KK-Audio or Westwood X15 size Karlson cabinet for sale owned by
Leland Sklar. They have it listed as "K15" but this size is about 57 percent the bulk of K15, so low frequency cutoff about a half octave higher.
not a bad price
1970's Karlson K15 Bass Cabinet 15" Speaker Owned | Reverb
Leland Sklar - Wikipedia
Leland Sklar. They have it listed as "K15" but this size is about 57 percent the bulk of K15, so low frequency cutoff about a half octave higher.
not a bad price
1970's Karlson K15 Bass Cabinet 15" Speaker Owned | Reverb
Leland Sklar - Wikipedia
Hi Freddie just wondering if you ever heard of this speaker it's called the CBS speaker you can Google it lots of picks and videos on you tube like this link ,Contoh Skema Box CBS 18 Inch versi Lengkap 2019 what are your thoughts on this and how you think at it producing bass, let me know if this can be modelled for in hornrep and what is this type of box bass reflex, or hornloaded got me curious about it a d wanted to know what you and others think, hear is a YouTube video YouTube ,let me know what you and others think
re: Karlson
I think that the Karlson speaker is similar to tapped Horns, and when I mentioned tapped horns to Carl Neuser, he thought that Karlson is a type of tapped horn.
I think, though, that Karlson tried to design the Karlson speaker to avoid much of the irregular frequency response above the two octane window that tapped horns are useful for, trying to make them full range. I tried to operate my EVM-15L Karlson speakers "wide range" up to about 2 khz and crossover to 1 inch compression drivers (B&C DE10) in homemade Transylvania tubes, but I did not like the effect. I don't think that the EVM-15L drivers sound good that high (except in open baffle, but mounted in the Karlsons, the bass is much better than when mounted in open baffle) - they might be in break-up mode. The Karlson speakers seem to be pretty boxy sounding in the midrange too. I was using Lowther drivers in front horns, but the Lowther drivers failed me, so I am currently using the midrange drivers of a pair of minimonitors as the midrange, crossing over to the transylvania tubes around 2khz (in place of the soft dome tweeter in the minimonitors), and this sounds good.
Still, the Lowther drivers reproducing both midrange and high frequencies sounded better to my ears - more wholistic. I may not have the Karlson tubes optimized though.
Carl said that he could EQ his Karlson speakers flat to 7 hz if you put a big amp on them. I have a 350 watt per channel amp on them and they do put out a surprising amount of bass below their supposed lower cutoff (but not flat), but the 15 inch cones are not so well controlled that low, and the EVM speakers have only 3 mm x-max. When high-passing the Karlsons at 50/60 hz, they literally don't move, even if I am cranking them (probably a whole 10, maybe 20 watts, because they are quite efficient. I almost cannot imagine putting 200 watts through them, which is the limit for the EVM drivers.
Retsel
I think that the Karlson speaker is similar to tapped Horns, and when I mentioned tapped horns to Carl Neuser, he thought that Karlson is a type of tapped horn.
I think, though, that Karlson tried to design the Karlson speaker to avoid much of the irregular frequency response above the two octane window that tapped horns are useful for, trying to make them full range. I tried to operate my EVM-15L Karlson speakers "wide range" up to about 2 khz and crossover to 1 inch compression drivers (B&C DE10) in homemade Transylvania tubes, but I did not like the effect. I don't think that the EVM-15L drivers sound good that high (except in open baffle, but mounted in the Karlsons, the bass is much better than when mounted in open baffle) - they might be in break-up mode. The Karlson speakers seem to be pretty boxy sounding in the midrange too. I was using Lowther drivers in front horns, but the Lowther drivers failed me, so I am currently using the midrange drivers of a pair of minimonitors as the midrange, crossing over to the transylvania tubes around 2khz (in place of the soft dome tweeter in the minimonitors), and this sounds good.
Still, the Lowther drivers reproducing both midrange and high frequencies sounded better to my ears - more wholistic. I may not have the Karlson tubes optimized though.
Carl said that he could EQ his Karlson speakers flat to 7 hz if you put a big amp on them. I have a 350 watt per channel amp on them and they do put out a surprising amount of bass below their supposed lower cutoff (but not flat), but the 15 inch cones are not so well controlled that low, and the EVM speakers have only 3 mm x-max. When high-passing the Karlsons at 50/60 hz, they literally don't move, even if I am cranking them (probably a whole 10, maybe 20 watts, because they are quite efficient. I almost cannot imagine putting 200 watts through them, which is the limit for the EVM drivers.
Retsel
~600- 700Hz would be a pretty good place to crossover to some horns with K15. I did not like Bruce Edgar's Tractrix/LE5 with K15 coming in around 400.
some compression drivers should play to 1200 on a K-tube so that might be some improvement to use that for the 15L
Carl must be tuning low to apply a transform to 7Hz. I would not think it would be flat using a pro type woofer. A transform with normal venting would probably improve things - not sure about a peaked at tuning like 6th order network - that would be logical for conserving cone motion and getting more at 49-50Hz.
some compression drivers should play to 1200 on a K-tube so that might be some improvement to use that for the 15L
Carl must be tuning low to apply a transform to 7Hz. I would not think it would be flat using a pro type woofer. A transform with normal venting would probably improve things - not sure about a peaked at tuning like 6th order network - that would be logical for conserving cone motion and getting more at 49-50Hz.
A random bit on Karlson's X15 system
I first saw mention of it in AUDIO magazine's 1965 Directory and assume at that time it had the mini-klam tweeter with 3 inch open frame speaker (there was a Styrofoam coffee cup for back chamber)
The X15 with large vent below would be IMO the direct precursor to Transylvania Power Company's cabinet and others such
as Ernst Beck's BEC, Acoustic Control's 115Bk/BC2, KK-Audio, Westwood and another company
who all pretty much simultaneously introduced the same cabinet.
Here's an Acoustic Control 115BK cabinet next to my original X15 cabinet
In-room on and nearly 90 degrees off axis of my X15 clone with 1.875" diameter x 7.125" K-tube
https://i.imgur.com/2ALmls5.jpg
In-room with mic high and nearly overhead pointing down at the tube
[img]https://i.imgur.com/KSWOAoO.jpg
Carl Neuser's clone of an X15 slotted pipe tweeter and its pre-waveguide section
Here's my X15 clone, with clone 1.875"x7.125" tube clone, in-room at nearly 90 degrees off axis of horizontal
Johny Holiday's X15 cabinet used a smaller diameter tube and perhaps 1.25" diameter - it probably would measure smoother than the tube with diameter transition jump. Up close a piece could be seen put in to shorten the slot's length so Karlson was apparently experimenting and tweaking the system.
The first X15 (1965) tweeter was a 3 inch open frame cone speaker and a wooden mini-"klam"
Sketch of X15's dimensions
Sketch of Acoustic Control's 115BK Karlson (interior width ~19 inches)
"A New Frontier in Electronic Music" X15 sheet
"ULTRA-FIDELITY in the 'NEW' Perfect Size"
I've only seen one Karlson type cabinet on TV and it was Acoustic's BC2 Combo version
of 115BK, 115BK is a very good cabinet and measures very smooth with zero danping material.
If scaled ~1,2X to K15's bulk then it should make a fine little 18 inch cabinet for bass guitar
or with subwoofer or a home system.
I first saw mention of it in AUDIO magazine's 1965 Directory and assume at that time it had the mini-klam tweeter with 3 inch open frame speaker (there was a Styrofoam coffee cup for back chamber)
The X15 with large vent below would be IMO the direct precursor to Transylvania Power Company's cabinet and others such
as Ernst Beck's BEC, Acoustic Control's 115Bk/BC2, KK-Audio, Westwood and another company
who all pretty much simultaneously introduced the same cabinet.
Here's an Acoustic Control 115BK cabinet next to my original X15 cabinet
In-room on and nearly 90 degrees off axis of my X15 clone with 1.875" diameter x 7.125" K-tube
https://i.imgur.com/2ALmls5.jpg
In-room with mic high and nearly overhead pointing down at the tube
[img]https://i.imgur.com/KSWOAoO.jpg
Carl Neuser's clone of an X15 slotted pipe tweeter and its pre-waveguide section
Here's my X15 clone, with clone 1.875"x7.125" tube clone, in-room at nearly 90 degrees off axis of horizontal
Johny Holiday's X15 cabinet used a smaller diameter tube and perhaps 1.25" diameter - it probably would measure smoother than the tube with diameter transition jump. Up close a piece could be seen put in to shorten the slot's length so Karlson was apparently experimenting and tweaking the system.
The first X15 (1965) tweeter was a 3 inch open frame cone speaker and a wooden mini-"klam"
Sketch of X15's dimensions
Sketch of Acoustic Control's 115BK Karlson (interior width ~19 inches)
"A New Frontier in Electronic Music" X15 sheet
"ULTRA-FIDELITY in the 'NEW' Perfect Size"
I've only seen one Karlson type cabinet on TV and it was Acoustic's BC2 Combo version
of 115BK, 115BK is a very good cabinet and measures very smooth with zero danping material.
If scaled ~1,2X to K15's bulk then it should make a fine little 18 inch cabinet for bass guitar
or with subwoofer or a home system.
Last edited:
Re: 0.8 scale K15 for 12 inch drivers
Despite Karlson's warning not to scale K15, imo the result is OK.
The front shelf may reduce some frequencies in the upper half of the front chamber,
Here's about all I can find on that cabinet. It started with 2 - 3" ID x 3" long ducts but I blocked those holes and cut a scaled (~21.125 sq.in.) K15 port in the center of the port board. The rear lowpass gap was about 37sq.in., so a bit less than 1/2 Sd of a typical 12 inch speaker.
0.75 scale gets close to the size of Karlson's Twelve cabinet.
Despite Karlson's warning not to scale K15, imo the result is OK.
The front shelf may reduce some frequencies in the upper half of the front chamber,
Here's about all I can find on that cabinet. It started with 2 - 3" ID x 3" long ducts but I blocked those holes and cut a scaled (~21.125 sq.in.) K15 port in the center of the port board. The rear lowpass gap was about 37sq.in., so a bit less than 1/2 Sd of a typical 12 inch speaker.
0.75 scale gets close to the size of Karlson's Twelve cabinet.
I have two questions regarding Karlsonator with 2x 3FE25(16 Ohms).
1) mounting the front element: I have seen photos with a few separate blocks of wood glued to the internal walls, but how about just 3 single 15x10mm bars of wood like on the photos below? Might it have any negative impact on the sound?
2) I have prepared 10mm lamellas made of vintage wood that I intend to glue to the external walls. I guess that won't affect the sound? I have also a grille to cover the curtain with a black fabric - mounted with 4 neodymium magnets
1) mounting the front element: I have seen photos with a few separate blocks of wood glued to the internal walls, but how about just 3 single 15x10mm bars of wood like on the photos below? Might it have any negative impact on the sound?
2) I have prepared 10mm lamellas made of vintage wood that I intend to glue to the external walls. I guess that won't affect the sound? I have also a grille to cover the curtain with a black fabric - mounted with 4 neodymium magnets
Hi Ripson,
You might want to post your question in the Karlsonator thread:
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FDs
The 0.53x with dual 3FE25-16 that was made for me by Jhofland indeed had two long internal ledgers to hold the front aperture. I had another set made by my cabinet maker using the same plans and you can see the long ledgers here:
That’s 14 coats of hand rubbed lacquer (mixed with some stain to give it the espresso color).
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...onator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-334.html#post5832154
You might want to post your question in the Karlsonator thread:
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FDs
The 0.53x with dual 3FE25-16 that was made for me by Jhofland indeed had two long internal ledgers to hold the front aperture. I had another set made by my cabinet maker using the same plans and you can see the long ledgers here:
That’s 14 coats of hand rubbed lacquer (mixed with some stain to give it the espresso color).
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...onator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-334.html#post5832154
