without one in hand, I can't tell how it would do - W81772 worked well in K-couplers but for the money FE206EN did more overall - at least the Dayton's price is attractive - if that stays put
tapped line 8" coupler w. stock FE206EN sitting on top of Lapaire's K15 2-way. The little coupler keeps up plus is more coherent.
tapped line 8" coupler w. stock FE206EN sitting on top of Lapaire's K15 2-way. The little coupler keeps up plus is more coherent.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have installed the Dayton 8" FR PS220 in our backloaded Bushhorn and on the other side we had the Fostex FE206 en. The is no comparesine the fostex blows the Dayton away, in all aspects, Better Highs, Bass is better and to listen to the two, personally after five min. my right side said turn this one off, please! And that the way it is!!! If you want to buy a Dayton go for the 5" PA130 we used it in in the BH5 and it sounds better than the PS220!
Bushhorns Home
Bushhorns Home
Tuxeducivic,
In a way I could not agree more. All speakers are a trade off between many parameters, and in the way you decribe it, this driver could be workeable. The high efficiency and Xmax are great assets. But it will take some effort to tame this b***.
The rewards could be great. Just to mention another driver that is not very flat either, the Dayton ND105-4. Bad break up too at 7KHz or so. But if well compensated, it gives you a +/- 1.5 dB flat curve between 50 Hz and 2Khz. Best bass for any 4" I know. There are always trade offs.
It certainly is an interesting driver, the PS220, so I hope someone out there will take the time and effort to get it under control. Even more so if that someone would be willing to share his results with the community.
In a way I could not agree more. All speakers are a trade off between many parameters, and in the way you decribe it, this driver could be workeable. The high efficiency and Xmax are great assets. But it will take some effort to tame this b***.
The rewards could be great. Just to mention another driver that is not very flat either, the Dayton ND105-4. Bad break up too at 7KHz or so. But if well compensated, it gives you a +/- 1.5 dB flat curve between 50 Hz and 2Khz. Best bass for any 4" I know. There are always trade offs.
It certainly is an interesting driver, the PS220, so I hope someone out there will take the time and effort to get it under control. Even more so if that someone would be willing to share his results with the community.
I had some time (and ply) to waste so I built Karlson type cabinet.
As expected, 200HZ peak is audible but I can live with it. I did not measure the speakers (nor I intend to do it) - I just had to build them to hear what's all that fuzz about Karlson speakers before I build a proper cabinet (like Singularities described on PE site).
However, I must admit I will leave it like this for a while. I kind a like how it sounds in my room. With all it's peaks & dips.
As expected, 200HZ peak is audible but I can live with it. I did not measure the speakers (nor I intend to do it) - I just had to build them to hear what's all that fuzz about Karlson speakers before I build a proper cabinet (like Singularities described on PE site).
However, I must admit I will leave it like this for a while. I kind a like how it sounds in my room. With all it's peaks & dips.
Attachments
if PS220 is nice and bright on top then it should sound pretty nice in your new Karlsonettes and maybe better than a "proper cabinet" 
there may be some leeway of trimming of the lowpass rear shelf gap and vent areas. Hows the cone excursion vs bass impact?
there may be some leeway of trimming of the lowpass rear shelf gap and vent areas. Hows the cone excursion vs bass impact?An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Freddi, cone excursion is minimal but I am sure you already knew that. Whatever I played did not move the cone for more then 1.5 mm.
As for trimming the rear shelf, I did not mount the bar(s) because I want to try something else and see if it will put that 200Hz peak under control. Unfortunately I am pretty busy these days so it will have to wait.
As for trimming the rear shelf, I did not mount the bar(s) because I want to try something else and see if it will put that 200Hz peak under control. Unfortunately I am pretty busy these days so it will have to wait.
Freddi, there 's no need to hijack this thread with another Karlson discussion, especially since I still have couple things to do on these cabinets. When I am done, I will most likely present it on gainclone or in separate thread. My intention is to try to modify the rear shelf (maybe even the top chamber) and see if it will help with peaks/dips.
By posting in this thread, I just wanted to let anyone interested in PS220 that they sound pretty good in Karlsons (and in my room). No measurement can describe that sound - the closest would be to say that it sounds like the "loudness" is built into the speaker. The sound just fills the whole room and you can really feel it, regardless of where you stand. Imaging is unbelievable. Bass is strong, punchy and starts hammering somewhere around 60Hz (thanks to cabinets) while the highs are sparkling, due to PS220. Classical music sounds terrific. Again ... there are few audible peaks/dips so if you are looking for a technically perfect speaker, go for MLTL.
When I was breaking in the drivers, I was more gentle then bear. It took about two weeks for me and I started from lower levels, gradually increasing the volume/excursion. I checked them couple times during that and indeed, they do sound much different then they did when I purchased them.
By posting in this thread, I just wanted to let anyone interested in PS220 that they sound pretty good in Karlsons (and in my room). No measurement can describe that sound - the closest would be to say that it sounds like the "loudness" is built into the speaker. The sound just fills the whole room and you can really feel it, regardless of where you stand. Imaging is unbelievable. Bass is strong, punchy and starts hammering somewhere around 60Hz (thanks to cabinets) while the highs are sparkling, due to PS220. Classical music sounds terrific. Again ... there are few audible peaks/dips so if you are looking for a technically perfect speaker, go for MLTL.
When I was breaking in the drivers, I was more gentle then bear. It took about two weeks for me and I started from lower levels, gradually increasing the volume/excursion. I checked them couple times during that and indeed, they do sound much different then they did when I purchased them.
>>> I just wanted to let anyone interested in PS220 that they sound pretty good in Karlsons (and in my room). No measurement can describe that sound - the closest would be to say that it sounds like the "loudness" is built into the speaker. The sound just fills the whole room and you can really feel it...
Thanks for sharing your impressions. I look forward to your additional comments.
Could you share the approximate outter dims of your boxes? Also, do you leave them on the floor like in the pics when you listen? If you do, does the imaging sit low or just fill the room as you describe?
Zilla
Thanks for sharing your impressions. I look forward to your additional comments.
Could you share the approximate outter dims of your boxes? Also, do you leave them on the floor like in the pics when you listen? If you do, does the imaging sit low or just fill the room as you describe?
Zilla
Zilla,
Boxes are based on Karlsonette plans Freddi posted in this thread - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/164834-fe206en-karlsonette-1st-k12.html. I converted them to metric and modified so I can fit both boxes on one sheet of 18mm (3/4") ply. So outer dims are (W x H x D) 420mm (16.5") x 620mm (24.4") x 355mm (14").
I tried them raised and moved around the room a bit (I even tried them upside down) but it does not make lots of difference. Distance from the wall behind them does not seem to matter at all. I would not say that raising speakers affects the imaging that much but I can hear the difference in highs. I think this is due to the way PS220 is mounted in Karlsons - unlike "normal" speaker, the driver baffle is tilted back by some 25 degrees so basically it is also firing up, not just straight ahead.
The room is appr.14 x 20 feet, no carpets.
It is not easy to turn the listening impressions into words and one really has to hear Karlsons by himself. I have read tons of threads from freddi and others, both here and on gainclone website, but nothing can match the feeling that I (and most of my neighbors) got when I heard Kevin Ayers's Dr. Dream on 105 dB.
Boxes are based on Karlsonette plans Freddi posted in this thread - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/164834-fe206en-karlsonette-1st-k12.html. I converted them to metric and modified so I can fit both boxes on one sheet of 18mm (3/4") ply. So outer dims are (W x H x D) 420mm (16.5") x 620mm (24.4") x 355mm (14").
I tried them raised and moved around the room a bit (I even tried them upside down) but it does not make lots of difference. Distance from the wall behind them does not seem to matter at all. I would not say that raising speakers affects the imaging that much but I can hear the difference in highs. I think this is due to the way PS220 is mounted in Karlsons - unlike "normal" speaker, the driver baffle is tilted back by some 25 degrees so basically it is also firing up, not just straight ahead.
The room is appr.14 x 20 feet, no carpets.
It is not easy to turn the listening impressions into words and one really has to hear Karlsons by himself. I have read tons of threads from freddi and others, both here and on gainclone website, but nothing can match the feeling that I (and most of my neighbors) got when I heard Kevin Ayers's Dr. Dream on 105 dB.
glad PS220 and the 1954 Karlsonette are a decent match. btw -FWIW I've tried to preserve and expand interest in John Edward Karlson's work. It was and is quite innovative, brilliant and effective. I may pick up some PS220 but probably have well over a ton of unused speaker systems and raw drivers.
Bass reflex Enclosure for PS220
I recently bought a pair of Dayton ps220 -8'' fulrange drivers and am working on the design for Bass reflex enclosures for them I am limiting the box size to about 40 Litres. Can anyone tell me what should be the Port size. I plan to use 9.2 cm or 10.5cm PVC tube.I shall be much obliged. What would be the lowest frequency for the same.
EFU1944
I recently bought a pair of Dayton ps220 -8'' fulrange drivers and am working on the design for Bass reflex enclosures for them I am limiting the box size to about 40 Litres. Can anyone tell me what should be the Port size. I plan to use 9.2 cm or 10.5cm PVC tube.I shall be much obliged. What would be the lowest frequency for the same.
EFU1944
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