#1 DAC user
I have the #1 version of the DAC.
Over all the quality of the board is good, I've been running it with i2s from an rpi 3.
Only modification so far is replacing the opamp with opa2134 which I had from a previous project.
It sounded very clear and relaxed out of the box but the change of opamp changed the tone quite radically and it sounds really nice now with a punchy upper bass.
I am powering the dac and rpi from an old HP laptop power brick, split into 2 by the regulators you see in the image attached - 5v (RPI) and 10v (DAC).
There's a lot of really interesting mods and information in this thread which makes me Google a lot of things I'm still learning about, but I am not in a hurry as it's sounding great so far.
Would be great to have more relevant RPI drivers (right now I am using RPI-DAC).
I have the #1 version of the DAC.
Over all the quality of the board is good, I've been running it with i2s from an rpi 3.
Only modification so far is replacing the opamp with opa2134 which I had from a previous project.
It sounded very clear and relaxed out of the box but the change of opamp changed the tone quite radically and it sounds really nice now with a punchy upper bass.
I am powering the dac and rpi from an old HP laptop power brick, split into 2 by the regulators you see in the image attached - 5v (RPI) and 10v (DAC).
There's a lot of really interesting mods and information in this thread which makes me Google a lot of things I'm still learning about, but I am not in a hurry as it's sounding great so far.
Would be great to have more relevant RPI drivers (right now I am using RPI-DAC).
The $2,200 DAC-3 is looking better and better every day Mark..
I may have to re-evaluate my decision making paradigm. I guess I'm living vicariously reading through your mods, and quickly realizing I may not want to go down this rabbit hole - at least not to the extent you are. This last post has me weary just reading it. No offense. It's simply not a level I have the skill for, or feel comfortable doing.Now if only I could feed my Pioneer Elite SACD player an I2S signal. Hum.....
The $2,200 DAC-3 is looking better and better every day Mark..
Now if only I could feed my Pioneer Elite SACD player an I2S signal. Hum.....
If you have the wherewithal to buy a DAC-3 then I say go for it! But, I have to warn you, Benchmark makes a world-class SOA power amp to go with it, the AHB2 (which I have). Yes, such things are expensive and I struggled with the decision to spend that kind of money on audio gear, but I could not be more satisfied. It was definitely money well spent. And, I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Now, regarding today's post. I wasn't expecting what happened obviously, but it happened. You get to hear the story as it is. However, the reason I am doing what I did today is so you won't have to. The goal is, and always has been, to make dac modding a project that an amateur diy'er can do on their own, without having to solve any vexing puzzles. I would say you could give it awhile and see if I can come up with a modding approach you feel comfortable with, or just bite the bullet and go for a DAC-3. I can't recommend it and an AHB2 enough.
Another solution if you can live with an RPi music player might be Allo Katana with linear supplies and film caps as I described here. It is not quite a DAC-3, but it is very good for the money, IMHO, and pretty similar to the modded dac in sound quality. I don't know of anything more cost effective offering that level of sound quality, other than the modding route. The main advantage of the modded dac is that is what I call a general purpose dac, not one designed for use as a dedicated music player. Katana sounds great with an AHB2 power amplifier too, by the way.
The other thing I would say is that modding a dac, even if I can remove the uncertainty currently associated with RF management, is that it is a lot of work. You would be spending a lot of hours on it, and it sure helps if you like doing that type of thing. Otherwise, you might be a lot happier spending some money (assuming of course that is a possible option for you).
EDIT: I would suggest to probably forego the idea of feeding the SACD player with I2S. It will not be in the same league as the dacs we are talking about here.
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Hi gideon,
Thanks for dropping by with a post and sharing a pic of your dac setup. Happy to have you here.
Good to hear that you are satisfied with the dac you have so far, but I have to tell you the difference between it and a fully modded dac is pretty extreme. To me, an unmodded dac like you have sounds pretty awful. Fully modded, that same dac chip you have can sound great, really exceptional. Anyway, if you like good sound and you like diy audio work, you would certainly be welcome to join in and mod a dac with us.
Regarding your interest in a better RPi driver, I think there is one, but unfortunately I didn't make of note of which post mentioned it. Maybe one of the other folks here can point you in the right direction. Otherwise, if I happen to come across it, I will post a reply for you so you can take a look and see if it might be of interest.
hi, there,
i have the driver for 90x8q2m, i wonder if i can post them here. on 9028q2m i can get the dpll to 1, make huge improvement in performance.
your dac can not use the i2c driver, this one is good:
NUOVO ES9038 ES9038Q2M DAC scheda di Decodifica Supporto IIS DSD DOP 384 KHz trasporto libero in NUOVO ES9038 ES9038Q2M DAC scheda di Decodifica Supporto IIS DSD DOP 384 KHz trasporto liberoda Amplificatore su AliExpress.com | Gruppo Alibaba
Hi eslei,
You can post links here. You cannot say proprietary information directly about register numbers and specific bit numbers. You can post a link to a driver that uses proprietary information so long as the information itself is hidden in compiled code or otherwise obscured from users. For example, I think TP drivers and software allow users to set DPLL values, they just don't let them see how the firmware writes register values to particular register numbers.
Does that help? If you want you can PM me so we can talk offline.
Also, may I ask how you are running your dac to get DPLL working at 1? Is it sitting out in open air, or is it in case? I am wondering if most of the issues I am seeing with DPLL stability are due to the steel case.
I use the case here because I am located on top of a hill with cities and airports around anywhere up to 100 miles away across the valley. There is lots of RF from various sources in the valley, so I need the shielding of the case.
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Thanks so much @Markw4, it's a very inspiring thread and different journeys that people like you have gone through. Which is what made me buy the DAC in the first place - I probably should have gotten the green one...
I previously had a very cheap es9023 for a while which had a very airy and pleasant sound signature (that pretty much my benchmark right now) and I thought this could be a good bump in quality with lot's of opportunity to squeeze even more as a lot of you guys have done.
What would be cool and more practical for me and probably others like me is what could be a best bang for buck kind of mods I can try first. I understand the initial must haves are all related to pumping better power supply to different components while bypassing the on board supply.
I am trying to fish out some good examples and need to learn about it more from this lengthy thread.
@eslei - thanks as well! I've seen some of the github repos posted here and there and i've even tried to compile one of them without much success of getting it to work.. seems like needs a different crystal to the one thats on board.
It would be great to have one that is compatible with my board or maybe some direction would be great as well. I understand this is all a bit sensitive and fully understand if it can not be shared right now.
Gideon
my 9038q2m drvers are compiled for 100mhz crystal, work for pcm 768, dsd dop 512 via i2s. your dac board doesn't have i2c connection.
cheers
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Awesome!
I bought the board from the following listing: ES9038Q2M I2S IIS DSD DOP ????SPDIF????DAC????-???
Which has some good high resolution photos..
I notice in the link you gave here:
NEW ES9038 ES9038Q2M DAC Decoder board Support IIS DSD DOP 384KHz free shipping in NEW ES9038 ES9038Q2M DAC Decoder board Support IIS DSD DOP 384KHz free shippingda Amplificatore su AliExpress.com | Gruppo Alibaba
what I understand the i2c connectors are on the back of the pcb (SDA, SCL, RES).
In my DAC there is nothing like that in the back of the PCB and no equivalent connectors on the top as well.
You are right and this maybe the most noob question but what would the i2c allow me to do? - from my basic understanding it will allow the board to be slaved by another master? - this can get better clocking?
Gideon
eslei,
Since your driver is compiled, it should be okay to post it. If you do, can say which pin numbers on RPi are used for I2C? Seems to me RPi might have more than one I2C bus, IIRC.
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gideon,
I2C is a simple communication bus often used for programming chips and small, simple devices. It is the bus protocol for accessing the dac chip's internal control registers. There are some interesting things that can be done there to improve the sound quality of your dac.
With the type of dac board you have, there is an MCU on the board that reads the dip switches and volume pot and writes to the dac chip over I2C to control or configure it. To access the I2C bus from RPi you would have to interrupt the I2C connection between your MCU and dac chip and hook it up to RPi instead. You can always put it back when you are done too, so the change doesn't have to be permanent.
The only problem is that what you would have to do on the dac board involves some very tiny work. I have written descriptions and posted pictures of some ways to do it, but a lot of people don't think they can do it. Rather, they may prefer to buy one of the green dac boards and the optional display made for it. In that case, when the display is hooked up and if J1 and J2 are both installed, the MCU stops talking to the dac chip and you can get access to the bus at that time without breaking any connections or cutting tiny traces.
The most recent introductory information for modding boards is here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-320.html#post5609058
In the post list text file attached there are some that discuss 'pin lifting,' I2C, and Arduino. You can search the post list file to find things, or I'll have to see if I may have posted a summary of I2C bus related posts. Regarding Arduino, there is no reason RPi can't be used instead. I just happened to start with Arduino.
I2C is a simple communication bus often used for programming chips and small, simple devices. It is the bus protocol for accessing the dac chip's internal control registers. There are some interesting things that can be done there to improve the sound quality of your dac.
With the type of dac board you have, there is an MCU on the board that reads the dip switches and volume pot and writes to the dac chip over I2C to control or configure it. To access the I2C bus from RPi you would have to interrupt the I2C connection between your MCU and dac chip and hook it up to RPi instead. You can always put it back when you are done too, so the change doesn't have to be permanent.
The only problem is that what you would have to do on the dac board involves some very tiny work. I have written descriptions and posted pictures of some ways to do it, but a lot of people don't think they can do it. Rather, they may prefer to buy one of the green dac boards and the optional display made for it. In that case, when the display is hooked up and if J1 and J2 are both installed, the MCU stops talking to the dac chip and you can get access to the bus at that time without breaking any connections or cutting tiny traces.
The most recent introductory information for modding boards is here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-320.html#post5609058
In the post list text file attached there are some that discuss 'pin lifting,' I2C, and Arduino. You can search the post list file to find things, or I'll have to see if I may have posted a summary of I2C bus related posts. Regarding Arduino, there is no reason RPi can't be used instead. I just happened to start with Arduino.
gideon,
Found links to various I2C posts all in post #3308 here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-331.html#post5622992
Also in posts #2861 and #2862 starting here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-287.html#post5562924
However, your board is laid out a little differently. We could talk about how you might proceed if you think its something you might want to do.
Found links to various I2C posts all in post #3308 here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-331.html#post5622992
Also in posts #2861 and #2862 starting here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-287.html#post5562924
However, your board is laid out a little differently. We could talk about how you might proceed if you think its something you might want to do.
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here is the drivers, i test them on volumio v2.513. rpi pin 3 to sda, rpi pin 5 to scl.
detailed instructions later, i need some time to type.
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No link or attachment. diyaudio has file size limits if you try to attach here.
That board looks good, not to crazy on using wood, having a naked board might bring many issues.
Probably doesn't sound as interesting as it may look. It runs on a 5v wall wart and uses SMPS to develop dual rails, already a bad sign. Without seeing one close-up in person, hard to say too much more. But, every time I try one of the new low-cost Chinese ES9038Q2M variants, they always sound bad and are hard to make right. The one we mod here is sill the best layout I have seen for modding, if that were to be of interest.
eslei,
Thanks for posting the RPi driver. Hopefully, that will get maybe a few people motivated get an I2C connection working so they can enjoy the much improved sound quality from DPLL adjustment (for DSD).
If and when you have time, I would still be interested to know how you have your dac board arranged so that you can get DPLL to work at 1 without problems. I assume you must have it sitting out in open air rather than in a steel case. If that's all there is to it for most people then that would be very good news.
Ultimately, of course, it would be good to know how to design the boards to work inside a well-shielded case. Noise and RFI/EMI from DECT phones, cell phones, desktop PCs with windows in the side, etc., can all adversely affect sound quality if there is no shielding. All the more so if using LME49720/LME49860 type opamps which may be somewhat more sensitive to RF fields. However, if open air works reliably to avoid DPLL stability problems then I can breath a little easier for awhile rather than feeling quite so urgent about it. There are some other things I would like to be spending some time on too, like maybe Spartan 6, for one.
Thanks for posting the RPi driver. Hopefully, that will get maybe a few people motivated get an I2C connection working so they can enjoy the much improved sound quality from DPLL adjustment (for DSD).
If and when you have time, I would still be interested to know how you have your dac board arranged so that you can get DPLL to work at 1 without problems. I assume you must have it sitting out in open air rather than in a steel case. If that's all there is to it for most people then that would be very good news.
Ultimately, of course, it would be good to know how to design the boards to work inside a well-shielded case. Noise and RFI/EMI from DECT phones, cell phones, desktop PCs with windows in the side, etc., can all adversely affect sound quality if there is no shielding. All the more so if using LME49720/LME49860 type opamps which may be somewhat more sensitive to RF fields. However, if open air works reliably to avoid DPLL stability problems then I can breath a little easier for awhile rather than feeling quite so urgent about it. There are some other things I would like to be spending some time on too, like maybe Spartan 6, for one.