The Best DAC is no DAC

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U

UMarcus

Member
Joined 2011
nautibuoy said:
There's lots of detail in the thread about what these boards do but to summarise:

The boards are intended for DSD playback only and use a simple low-pass filter to extract the analogue signal from the DSD stream.

In addition to the LP filter the boards also include a mute circuit that addresses the pops/clicks than can arise with this approach to DSD playback. Finally, there is a circuit that lights an LED when DSD data is received.

The PCB is designed to fit onto the header pins of the JLSounds I2SoverUSB board which, with the right computer feeding it, is capable of DSD256. With some creativity the PCBs could be used with other USB audio boards but the JLSounds one works very well.

The single-ended PCB feeds the DSD directly into a single low pass filter so the derived analogue signal is single-ended.

The flip-flop PCB feeds the DSD into a flip-flop integrated circuit which produces differential digital outputs; these can be passed through the dual (per channel) onboard LP filters to derive balanced analogue signals or, alternatively, the differential digital signals could be passed through TVCs.

You'll need to consider other factors such as what you do with the derived analogue signal, such as whether to use a buffer. Also consider where/how you're going to get your DSD data.

Hope that helps.

Ray
Click to expand...

Hi Ray,
many thanks for your summarise,that helps. Also many thanks for your effort to support and provide us this boards, thats great !

One question remains or i could not pointed out, what are the difference between Flip Flop and Balanced Board ?

Thanks
Regards
Marcus
 
L

ligascon

Member
Joined 2004
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: please specify type required
ichiban: please specify type required
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
 
dwjames

dwjames

Member
Joined 2012
updated - thanks :)

Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: please specify type required
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
 
M

matejS

Member
Joined 2007
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: please specify type required
ichiban: please specify type required
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
 
analog_sa

analog_sa

Member
Joined 2002
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: please specify type required
ichiban: please specify type required
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
 
nautibuoy

nautibuoy

Member
Joined 2010
Corrected list....

Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: please specify type required
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
 
L

lukaluka

Member
Joined 2009
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: please specify type required
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
lukaluka: flip-flop x 1
 
ichiban

ichiban

Member
Joined 2004
Paid Member
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: single-ended x1
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
lukaluka: flip-flop x 1
 
X

xaled

Member
Joined 2015
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: single-ended x1
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
lukaluka: flip-flop x 1
xaled: single-ended x 3
 
nautibuoy

nautibuoy

Member
Joined 2010
I had a small packet arrive today...

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


...the first batch of the revised single-ended boards.

I'm aiming to make one of these up and test it over the coming weekend.

Also, the parts I'm waiting for to finish the flip-flop prototype are now on the way so I should be able to get that tested next week too.

Ray
 
A

anjump123

Member
Joined 2010
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: single-ended x1
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
lukaluka: flip-flop x 1
xaled: single-ended x 3
Anjump123: Single-ended X 2
 
Last edited:
asanden

asanden

Member
Joined 2015
anjump123 said:
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: single-ended x1
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
lukaluka: flip-flop x 1
xaled: single-ended x 3
Anjump123: Single-ended X 2
asanden: balanced x 1 + SE x 1
Click to expand...
 
W

whmok

Member
Joined 2008
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: single-ended x1
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
lukaluka: flip-flop x 1
xaled: single-ended x 3
Anjump123: Single-ended X 2
asanden: balanced x 1 + SE x 1
whmok: single-ended x 2
 
merlin el mago

merlin el mago

Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
nautibuoy said:
I had a small packet arrive today...

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


...the first batch of the revised single-ended boards.

I'm aiming to make one of these up and test it over the coming weekend.

Also, the parts I'm waiting for to finish the flip-flop prototype are now on the way so I should be able to get that tested next week too.

Ray
Click to expand...

Ray is possible to buy the B.O.M togheter the pcb?

Regards
Felipe
 
C

cal1sto

Member
Joined 2015
On my point of view :
To have a clean bit perfect signal is to be sure that you deliver Native DSD data out and the sample rate match with the file format (DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, ...) then like did some DAC pass it to standard LPF (opamp) to have the good analog signal into your Amplifier or your headset. Without a DAC you could only play pure Natice DSD data files and there the max rate should be set correctly by the one supported by your Mclk (to reduce loosing data by resampling).
Playing DSD data directly out from PC is some how like using two yoghurt pot and one wire to reproduce a sound ;)

PC DSD Native -> USB XMOS -> LPF -> Amplifier / Headset
(rate not clean) (rate match) (Analog(line))

I think the current proposition and experimentation is interresting but "better DAC is no DAC" as title is not matching the result . Here is more a "DSD native to Analog converter" nothing else than that , this could not trigger the standard PCM and DoP format. But anyway this is a DAC yes but a DSD to Analog Converter ;) you get a lot effort done on the OS side to get everything as Native DSD out or converted.

Why not connecting it to speaker directly with between some amp transistor ;)

Some time rebuilding the world is sometimes the way to think different our approch ;)
GG men, good job !
 
J

jims

Member
Joined 2007
whmok said:
Hazard500: flip-flop x1
Supra: single-ended x1
Stijn001: flip-flop x1
dwjames: single-ended x1
ichiban: single-ended x1
PJotr25: flip-flop x1
Pegasus21: flip-flop x1
skrstic: flip-flop x1
Snicklefritzz: please specify type required
flowerpot: flip-flop x 1
Umarcus: balanced x 2
Giulio: flip-flop x 1
Caad: balanced x 2
randytsuch:balanced x 1
deanoUK balanced x 1 SE x 1
Vdi_nenna: single-ended X 2
merlin el mago: single-ended x 2
Nikola Krivorov: single ended Х1
pgour : Flip_Flop x 1 + SE x 1
ligascon: balanced x 1 SE x 1
matejS: single-ended x 1
analog_sa: balanced x 1 SE x 1
lukaluka: flip-flop x 1
xaled: single-ended x 3
Anjump123: Single-ended X 2
asanden: balanced x 1 + SE x 1
whmok: single-ended x 2
Click to expand...
JimS: balanced X1 + single-ended x 2
 
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