QUOTE:
Have you tried a current source implementation ? was it better than the
parallel arrangement shown at Post 127 across the anode and cathode being 78xx + capacitance + pot resistance.
Where the anode and cathode have no parallel components at all is what you need to try, so current source and current sink, with no parallel capacitance or resistance - (internal to devices) or external via pots.
I would rate a LM317 arranged as a Vref/r regulator for anode of the device on its own, poor to average, with resulting audio, compared to with what can actually be achieved. But compared to Post 127's schematic - quite a leap forward.
then with a dedicated current sink for the cathodes better again
END QUOTE:.............
A leap forward? A leap how so? Ya still can't grasp the concept the two sides/pieces that make up the iso device have neither a mechanical or electrical contact with each other.
You evidentally own a VOM meter and maybe you know how to use it at any rate I will give you the benefit of doubt and say you can use it. Try to measure the device....I'll give you a hint...there is probably a dot on one side and that will denote the LED portion and since your an expert you can probably tell anode from cathode. See if there is any connection between the LED and the resistance portion.
Have you tried a current source implementation ? was it better than the
parallel arrangement shown at Post 127 across the anode and cathode being 78xx + capacitance + pot resistance.
Where the anode and cathode have no parallel components at all is what you need to try, so current source and current sink, with no parallel capacitance or resistance - (internal to devices) or external via pots.
I would rate a LM317 arranged as a Vref/r regulator for anode of the device on its own, poor to average, with resulting audio, compared to with what can actually be achieved. But compared to Post 127's schematic - quite a leap forward.
then with a dedicated current sink for the cathodes better again
END QUOTE:.............
A leap forward? A leap how so? Ya still can't grasp the concept the two sides/pieces that make up the iso device have neither a mechanical or electrical contact with each other.
You evidentally own a VOM meter and maybe you know how to use it at any rate I will give you the benefit of doubt and say you can use it. Try to measure the device....I'll give you a hint...there is probably a dot on one side and that will denote the LED portion and since your an expert you can probably tell anode from cathode. See if there is any connection between the LED and the resistance portion.
Now now, Chris, you know very well that I have no problem with the data sheet. My problem is with your bogus measurement of the "resistance" from output to ground pin of a 78xx regulator. Did you look at the data sheet? Do you see any output impedance anywhere near 4K Ohms? You know very well the output impedance of the regulator is a few milliohms, approaching almost 1 Ohm at 1MHz. I suggest you re-do your sums using the correct output impedance. (You did do some calculations, right?)
*sigh* OK, whatever, you seem to think resistors have cathodes...
Piffle. None of this has anything to do with sound quality of a signal passed through the resistor of an LDR. Have you measured noise or distortion on your magical arrangement of random electronic components?
No, sir, your ridiculous assertion of a 4.7K Ohm output resistance of a regulator is what conflicts with the TI data sheet.
Ya, need to calm down I think, and see the totally unnecessary aggressive way in which you address replies... as for the content you write here, it is plainly wrong thinking I do not know which is the anode and cathode and then by that coupling opto isolated, signal side. .. feeling better now ?
For the readers benefit a 78XX has a internal fixed resistance between its output and ground. See image
The 78xx device has extremely good low output impedance to easily drive that resistive load , however the resistance between anode and cathode is still there, it does not magically disappear because the output impedance of the device has ability to easily drive it , hence remains as a added parallel resistance across the anode and cathode, when used per Post 127's schematic. The 78xx must preference its own internal resistance, in this case as a load of 10.4ma - instead of the more sensitive LDR .
Instead if we remove such parallels including capacitors and potentiometers
a audio purpose LDR improves its ability as an attenuator immensely.
Just listen to one vs the other - its quite apparent.
see the data sheet that shows the LED and the photocell
http://lunainc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/NSL-32SR3.pdf
Attachments
Last edited:
No. To the extent that your explanation is intelligible, it is wrong. The output impedance of the regulator is it's "resistance to ground". But again, a red herring since none of this is meaningful for a simple LED control.
Excellent! You are making progress! You have finally acknowledged that the device has two discrete components, only one of which has an anode or cathode, and the other is a resistor.
Think again, observing the graph of photocell resistance vs current via the LED, http://lunainc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/NSL-32SR3.pdf we see the NSL32SR3 uses as a attenuator much less current than 10.4ma, we could say 2ma and lower, is where its main activity occurs.
The 78xx is simply the wrong device to use for LDR's as it preferences its own
internal resistance as a load, plus its a voltage regulator, LDR's are current devices needing current regulation .
A 78xx is OK for washing machines and the like, where the load is greater than 10.4ma ( thats a very light load of washing by the way
) but has no place in achieving the best audio from the NSL32SR3 or NSL32SR2SI will acknowledge the compliment,
but a tad bit condescending considering I have been using them correctly since 2008
Oh my. The 7805 is a constant voltage source with an outout impedance of about .008 Ohms. You do the math, I'm sure you can figure out how to manage current less than 2mA through an LED and a series resistor. People do it every day. And, again, I ask for your measurements of signals passed through the LDR (the resistor, not the LED) controlled by a voltage regulator and potentiometer vs your magical circuit. Show us a difference.
I would not use a series resistor is the answer, and I would not use a 7805 at all.
I too look forward to the difference being shown. Its not a magical circuit, it
has just been patiently developed to provide the best audio possible from the NSL32SR3 using a current source and current sink.
You are welcome to hear in the mean time -the difference it can make.
You are quite right DF96, so long as it's low noise it ABSOLUTELY has no effect on the sound quality.
As the ldr's have such a slow response time to the led intensity volume change they (the ldr's) need quite a few millisecond to reach the desired resistance level once the led level intensity is changed.
So in effect they (the ldrs') are "self regulating" to any fluctuation in the led flicker even with the worst power supply.
So any claim on "super duper power supplies" for the led's that will make the ldr's sound better, is out there with other BS snake oil in audio.
Cheers George
This internal resistance which you are fixated about is in parallel with the much much lower output impedance of the 78xx regulator so can be ignored. It does not appear in parallel with the anode and cathode of the LED because there is a huge variable resistor in series with it. So you are fixating on something which is utterly and totally irrelevant to how the LED is driven. Why you persist in this is a mystery. Unclear to me whether you are genuinely seriously confused about basic electronics or merely trying to blow smoke in the eyes of potential customers.Chris Daly said:
Pure nonsense. The LDR has a slow response to light changes, so the light source need not have particularly high quality. Even if feeding the LED from a current source improved its light quality by a significant amount (but it does not) it would not be necessary for this application because of the slow LDR.
In any case, we only have your word that the LED has nothing in parallel with it in your circuit. You haven't shown us your circuit, but merely talked about it and made claims for it. Given your inability to analyse and understand other circuits (e.g. 78xx internals, other LDR controls) we can have no confidence that you have correctly understood the operation of your own circuit.
No, they are foward-biased diodes.
If you understood electronics you would know that you don't need a current source and a current sink, even if CCS drive was superior as you claim. So which of your two is working as a CCS and which is on the end stop and working as poor voltage source?
I assume your continued references to hearing mean that you have no measurements?
Assuming reasonably competent design and appropriate choice of optocoupler, about the only thing which could genuinely differentiate between different LDR volume controls is control law, including channel balance. You can't have less distortion, because that is set by the optocoupler and almost everyone seems to use the same device. You can't have less noise, because that is set by the optocoupler. You can't have less optical IM, because you would need quite incompetent design with a very noisy PSU to get more IM.
Quote:
LDR's are current devices needing current regulation.
End Quote
Well, I always try to look at something with an open mind. As I mentioned and others have the LDR is composed of two different parts. Some of us understand how a LDR works and others don't seem to. The LDR has a separate resistance side in which the signal goes thru. I'm going to call the Diode side the control side simply because an increase or decrease in light intensity is what changes the resistance of the signal side. As mentioned and its easy to test the diode side's power supply needs to be regulated in order to provide the best operation/control.
LDR's myth and magic
LDR's eliminate the wiper effect or create a better divider in that it eliminates the need to keep a can of cleaner around in order for the wiper to be kept clean. The idea that a "SUPER CIRCUIT" for the LED will provide better sounding audio is simply snake oil. The truth is there is NO connection between the LED's control circuit and the audio circuit. Chris even admitted when I asked if the audio grounds were separate.
Chris....
Getting one of your buddies to write a review is absolutely no proof that yours is any better especially with the "20 parts" that you incorporated in a nonsensical circuit.
non·sen·si·cal
/ˌnänˈsensək(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: nonsensical
1.
having no meaning; making no sense.
"a nonsensical argument"
synonyms:
meaningless, senseless, illogical
"her nonsensical way of talking"
antonyms:
logical, rational
2.
ridiculously impractical or ill-advised.
"a tax that everyone recognizes was nonsensical"
synonyms:
foolish, insane, stupid, idiotic, illogical, irrational, senseless, absurd, silly, inane, harebrained, ridiculous, ludicrous, preposterous
I was interested when I first started reading this thread simply because of the fact there is no wiper or contacts in the LDR circuit for the audio path. In reality LDR's no matter who sells them don't track perfectly Left to right or low to high.
My opinion and feel free to cry to the moderators. You have absolutely no idea what your doing. You have no concept of electronics. You have no business selling a snake oil product to consumers. Lastly, its people like yourself that give audio a bad name and you should be ashamed.
LDR's are current devices needing current regulation.
End Quote
Well, I always try to look at something with an open mind. As I mentioned and others have the LDR is composed of two different parts. Some of us understand how a LDR works and others don't seem to. The LDR has a separate resistance side in which the signal goes thru. I'm going to call the Diode side the control side simply because an increase or decrease in light intensity is what changes the resistance of the signal side. As mentioned and its easy to test the diode side's power supply needs to be regulated in order to provide the best operation/control.
LDR's myth and magic
LDR's eliminate the wiper effect or create a better divider in that it eliminates the need to keep a can of cleaner around in order for the wiper to be kept clean. The idea that a "SUPER CIRCUIT" for the LED will provide better sounding audio is simply snake oil. The truth is there is NO connection between the LED's control circuit and the audio circuit. Chris even admitted when I asked if the audio grounds were separate.
Chris....
Getting one of your buddies to write a review is absolutely no proof that yours is any better especially with the "20 parts" that you incorporated in a nonsensical circuit.
non·sen·si·cal
/ˌnänˈsensək(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: nonsensical
1.
having no meaning; making no sense.
"a nonsensical argument"
synonyms:
meaningless, senseless, illogical
"her nonsensical way of talking"
antonyms:
logical, rational
2.
ridiculously impractical or ill-advised.
"a tax that everyone recognizes was nonsensical"
synonyms:
foolish, insane, stupid, idiotic, illogical, irrational, senseless, absurd, silly, inane, harebrained, ridiculous, ludicrous, preposterous
I was interested when I first started reading this thread simply because of the fact there is no wiper or contacts in the LDR circuit for the audio path. In reality LDR's no matter who sells them don't track perfectly Left to right or low to high.
My opinion and feel free to cry to the moderators. You have absolutely no idea what your doing. You have no concept of electronics. You have no business selling a snake oil product to consumers. Lastly, its people like yourself that give audio a bad name and you should be ashamed.
You are very wrong, arriving at comments from zero knowledge of what I do,
you should be ashamed.
Your absolutely right son. I'm wrong for exposing BS when I see it and if you read back thru the posts I'm not alone. I realize 40+ years of playing with stuff doesn't make me an expert but at least I'm smart enough to admit when I don't know something or have an answer. You on the other hand ...well you can't seem to see the forest for the trees.
Burnedfingers/DF96,
have either of you actually built/presented to the audio community any kind of audio device. If you have, has it been bought/liked by anyone, anywhere?
I used to use Panasonic pots, then they disappeared. Commercial companies seem to boast about using Alps Blue pots - I've never understood why. Then on a UK forum 'shunting the pot' became all the rave and indeed it was a huge improvement over a standard Alps Blue, especially if the shunt resistors were naked Z foils. Spending loads of money on expensive attenuators seemed really silly in comparison.
Belatedly I became interested in the pros and cons of the Lightspeed and the Stereo Coffee LDR version of volume control - read everything and those who had tasted both and ditched the Lightspeed for the Stereo Coffee - this of course must have mightily pissed off the Lightspeed creator - his comments on this thread show this clearly.
As someone who actually listens to music I couldn't give a rats **** on the technical details. I mod equipment to achieve a more pleasurable experience.
I've always been amused by the expression 'the music came from an inky blackness' - really!
I've been listening to music from the early 60's - was at the Stone's 2nd gig, had a conversation with Mick afterwards bla bla bla - never heard music come from an inky background.
The Stereo Coffee - first thing that stands out is the live feeling to the bass - three dimensional. Jaco's bass on Herijo so alive, fibrous, like a shaman dancing through the whole of |Joni's LP. There's absolutely no blackness there just loads of energy and light. I played a Lightnin Hopkins - he was sitting right beside me playingI could go on and on, as others have as well.
So Burntfingers, DF96 - what exactly have you produced that compares with the S/C - anything or nothing at all - there's a nasty whiff of something in the air - with a hint of green - those who can do, those who can't - well we all know what they do, don't we.
have either of you actually built/presented to the audio community any kind of audio device. If you have, has it been bought/liked by anyone, anywhere?
I used to use Panasonic pots, then they disappeared. Commercial companies seem to boast about using Alps Blue pots - I've never understood why. Then on a UK forum 'shunting the pot' became all the rave and indeed it was a huge improvement over a standard Alps Blue, especially if the shunt resistors were naked Z foils. Spending loads of money on expensive attenuators seemed really silly in comparison.
Belatedly I became interested in the pros and cons of the Lightspeed and the Stereo Coffee LDR version of volume control - read everything and those who had tasted both and ditched the Lightspeed for the Stereo Coffee - this of course must have mightily pissed off the Lightspeed creator - his comments on this thread show this clearly.
As someone who actually listens to music I couldn't give a rats **** on the technical details. I mod equipment to achieve a more pleasurable experience.
I've always been amused by the expression 'the music came from an inky blackness' - really!
I've been listening to music from the early 60's - was at the Stone's 2nd gig, had a conversation with Mick afterwards bla bla bla - never heard music come from an inky background.
The Stereo Coffee - first thing that stands out is the live feeling to the bass - three dimensional. Jaco's bass on Herijo so alive, fibrous, like a shaman dancing through the whole of |Joni's LP. There's absolutely no blackness there just loads of energy and light. I played a Lightnin Hopkins - he was sitting right beside me playingI could go on and on, as others have as well.
So Burntfingers, DF96 - what exactly have you produced that compares with the S/C - anything or nothing at all - there's a nasty whiff of something in the air - with a hint of green - those who can do, those who can't - well we all know what they do, don't we.
No experience here with the Stereo Coffee LDR. I do have a Tortuga LDR pre, assembled from their kit. There has been absolutely zero issues with LDR tracking, left to right or low to high. And, I might add, there will not likely ever be an issue, as there is a calibration mode that takes care of any potential mistracking. In the event that an LDR decides not to cooperate, it is easy to replace with an inexpensive plug-in module.
Yes, and if Burnedfingers wants to discuss LDR's with an engineer he could discuss this with Mort Sissner, who posts here as Captain Watt.
Have I had enough of this........
Black Stuart
Well said....this gave me the shove I needed to speak out.
I've been watching this **** for years in utter and total disbelief. From what I have read they've not even heard Georges's never mind a Tortuga or a Lighternote.
I've not once seen them attack Uriah Daly, his version or claim IP breach like....ever.
So it's quite clear to any intelligent human being there's something else going on here.
The moderators seem to leave it till the last minute to step in too - wonder why that is ?
If Chris Daly is so stupid, unintelligent and has absolutely no idea of what he is talking about then how on earth has he produced such an excellent sounding piece of kit ?
I've bough plenty of over hyped crap from rip off retailers and never once received the sort of help and after sales care that I experienced with this gentleman....yes gentleman.
The kit didn't cost a lot of money considering the truly huge performance gains I've attained and looking at the quality of the boards it's hard to imagine Chris becoming a millionaire on the back of it - such is his own personal investment and huge amount of time it must take to produce.
It's for the love of music that drives this man I'm sure and not a Bugatti.
I can say with authority ( as I've actually built and owned them ) that the Stereo Coffee by far blows away the original one I built ( whose design we're all sick of hearing about ) and the Lighter note.
I too couldn't give a **** ( yes, let's talk straight here...and in any case I'm from the North ) about the technical garbage that the Physics teachers here rant on about. It sounds astonishing - end of.
If you've not heard one...shut yer f....g mouths and do it before you criticize further.
If the moderators don't like this post then I say unto them ' observe the bullying, rudeness and blatant nastiness of other members first and foremost or forfeit the badge '
Not in all the years of my membership here have i ever seen anything quite like it and there are some here who should hang there head in shame.
I've attached a picture of my Stereo Coffee for the music lovers and to prove I know what I'm talking about at least.
I'll stand by my comments above - if anyone in authority wants to close my membership then do it - I really don't care.
I HATE BULLIES and they're here right now
I'm really glad I got this off my chest.....I'm absolutely seething
Black Stuart
Well said....this gave me the shove I needed to speak out.
I've been watching this **** for years in utter and total disbelief. From what I have read they've not even heard Georges's never mind a Tortuga or a Lighternote.
I've not once seen them attack Uriah Daly, his version or claim IP breach like....ever.
So it's quite clear to any intelligent human being there's something else going on here.
The moderators seem to leave it till the last minute to step in too - wonder why that is ?
If Chris Daly is so stupid, unintelligent and has absolutely no idea of what he is talking about then how on earth has he produced such an excellent sounding piece of kit ?
I've bough plenty of over hyped crap from rip off retailers and never once received the sort of help and after sales care that I experienced with this gentleman....yes gentleman.
The kit didn't cost a lot of money considering the truly huge performance gains I've attained and looking at the quality of the boards it's hard to imagine Chris becoming a millionaire on the back of it - such is his own personal investment and huge amount of time it must take to produce.
It's for the love of music that drives this man I'm sure and not a Bugatti.
I can say with authority ( as I've actually built and owned them ) that the Stereo Coffee by far blows away the original one I built ( whose design we're all sick of hearing about ) and the Lighter note.
I too couldn't give a **** ( yes, let's talk straight here...and in any case I'm from the North ) about the technical garbage that the Physics teachers here rant on about. It sounds astonishing - end of.
If you've not heard one...shut yer f....g mouths and do it before you criticize further.
If the moderators don't like this post then I say unto them ' observe the bullying, rudeness and blatant nastiness of other members first and foremost or forfeit the badge '
Not in all the years of my membership here have i ever seen anything quite like it and there are some here who should hang there head in shame.
I've attached a picture of my Stereo Coffee for the music lovers and to prove I know what I'm talking about at least.
I'll stand by my comments above - if anyone in authority wants to close my membership then do it - I really don't care.
I HATE BULLIES and they're here right now
I'm really glad I got this off my chest.....I'm absolutely seething
Attachments
Whilst all effort is being made by BurnedFingers and DF96 to discredit me, it should be fairly obvious by now that the product speaks for itself, and in so doing I have a excellent maybe slightly different and therefore quite exciting understanding of audio purpose LDR's
A common point you will see in condescending replies is for the person writing to gain some gratification, at the expense of others.
The ethos of good forum conduct, I cannot think of any better than this excellent thread from the Art of Sound, every word is worth reflecting on:
The basics of Ethos
With DIY Audio threads some see their understanding of Physics instantly shattered by someone else's understanding, and rally to the belief that
You cannot, You Won't and I must stop you, without pausing to see what has been created in the name of DIY ... that slightly different approaches might bring new understanding to what was known before and therefore advance
how electronics, can maybe move forward.
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