I listen my Zen V4 for 2 day now and I found that the bass is"bad", without any impact. The other frequency is very well but in the low frequency, the music seem to be very confuse, without precision and impact!
Can it is cause by the fact that my 37 000uF caps are old ? I meen, When I turn off the amp, it play only for a second if I compare to the other amp I have at home !
Thank you !!!!
Can it is cause by the fact that my 37 000uF caps are old ? I meen, When I turn off the amp, it play only for a second if I compare to the other amp I have at home !
Thank you !!!!
Some speakers want more control and power than the Zen offers, and it is not for everybody. It might also be the caps, or it might be a low impedance woofer.
Because the Zen draws a lot of current all the time, it dumps the power supply pretty quickly at turn-off. A typical Class AB amplifier with low bias and big caps will often play for quite a while.
Because the Zen draws a lot of current all the time, it dumps the power supply pretty quickly at turn-off. A typical Class AB amplifier with low bias and big caps will often play for quite a while.
???
I use Zen V4 with my not ready yet Altec828 clones / TAD1601a:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=96330#post96330
I have not the impression of missing bass😉
I use Zen V4 with my not ready yet Altec828 clones / TAD1601a:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=96330#post96330
I have not the impression of missing bass😉
Nelson Pass:
My woofer have a 8 ohm impedance !
Before buting the Zen in my system, I drive my speaker with a cheep tube amplifier of 30 watt... and the bass is so powerful If I compare to the zen.... and the tube amplifier don't have good bass quality in general....
So, i'm a little bit desapoint by the bass of the amp but all the rest is wonderful, the voice is reproduc with a lot of energy !
Now, I don't have preamplifier... I just put a QED pot... so... the sound is not very very loud put it is OK
I will do the Bridge of zen...
In a few day... I will put some picture of my Zen !
Thank you Nelson Pass
My woofer have a 8 ohm impedance !
Before buting the Zen in my system, I drive my speaker with a cheep tube amplifier of 30 watt... and the bass is so powerful If I compare to the zen.... and the tube amplifier don't have good bass quality in general....
So, i'm a little bit desapoint by the bass of the amp but all the rest is wonderful, the voice is reproduc with a lot of energy !
Now, I don't have preamplifier... I just put a QED pot... so... the sound is not very very loud put it is OK
I will do the Bridge of zen...
In a few day... I will put some picture of my Zen !
Thank you Nelson Pass
Those are some very nice speakers you've got there.till said:
arold19, I think you want to try some of the efficient, lightweight, large woofer cones like they used to make in the good old days. Some nice Altecs or Tannoys.
Alternatively, if I were you, my next project would be an electronic crossover so I can use a Zen on the mid/top and some nice bipolar hunk on the bottom.
Lack of Bass with Zen V4
There may be a measureable reason for the lacking bass. The coupling cap used is a 10,000 ufd which should get you down to 5 Hz or so with a true 8 ohm load.
But the front end may be your problem. The passive pot you mentioned may be current starving the input. Without knowing its value; say it is a 50K unit, it is 50K to ground followed by 47K series impedance also to ground. So even if the pot is wide open it is essentially a 100K pot in the middle position but with the signal coming in on the wiper and both ends tied to ground.
Due to the 47K series resistor used on input of the Zen and the feedback loop it is in the Zen is not friendly to passive volume control. I looked into this whilw putting together an integrated V4. My answer was installing a pair of BUF634 inbetween the pots and the circuitry. This way the pots see a very high impedance and the input circuitry of the V4 seeing a very low source impedance.
I am sure the NP would not use the 8 pin chip to handle this function. But my circuit design skills were never real good and have slipped even more. It would very easy to build a good buffer from discrete components, I think that another of the FET's used on the V4 could be used. But I had the BUF634 chips and sockets. Plus I had very good results using them before on a CDplayer output.
Just my 2 cents!
George
There may be a measureable reason for the lacking bass. The coupling cap used is a 10,000 ufd which should get you down to 5 Hz or so with a true 8 ohm load.
But the front end may be your problem. The passive pot you mentioned may be current starving the input. Without knowing its value; say it is a 50K unit, it is 50K to ground followed by 47K series impedance also to ground. So even if the pot is wide open it is essentially a 100K pot in the middle position but with the signal coming in on the wiper and both ends tied to ground.
Due to the 47K series resistor used on input of the Zen and the feedback loop it is in the Zen is not friendly to passive volume control. I looked into this whilw putting together an integrated V4. My answer was installing a pair of BUF634 inbetween the pots and the circuitry. This way the pots see a very high impedance and the input circuitry of the V4 seeing a very low source impedance.
I am sure the NP would not use the 8 pin chip to handle this function. But my circuit design skills were never real good and have slipped even more. It would very easy to build a good buffer from discrete components, I think that another of the FET's used on the V4 could be used. But I had the BUF634 chips and sockets. Plus I had very good results using them before on a CDplayer output.
Just my 2 cents!
George
Everybody building ZEN should be aware of the low damping factor of this circuit design. This may be a reason of poor bass control with some speakers.
Hello ! I just want to say that I have my Zen V4 since almost 2 weeks now and the bass is better now ! I think that my amp have more than 30 hours live , so, the sound is better and the bass to ! The bass is not fantastic, but it is much listenable than the firsts hours of listen ! Now, I have more satisfaction of the Zen amplifier !!
Hello,
Try to use the speakers with larger cone area than 6,5''.
The 12 - 15 '' would sound much better.
I am using 15'' with the Zen-4, and the bass is ok.
.... or try something like this ZEN-XA below.
It for shure would not lack of any kind of bass 🙂
Best regards,
Kristijan Kljucaric
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip
Try to use the speakers with larger cone area than 6,5''.
The 12 - 15 '' would sound much better.
I am using 15'' with the Zen-4, and the bass is ok.
.... or try something like this ZEN-XA below.
It for shure would not lack of any kind of bass 🙂
Best regards,
Kristijan Kljucaric
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip
Attachments
I've reading through the diyforum these months. I am gathering parts to start with zen 4 and BOZ for their ease of assembly, but do you think the zen 4 would be capable for my Ensemble Elysia?
Since My Zen V4 is over, This is the only amp "pluged" in my system.... my tube amplifier was never power on before today...
So Today, I put my little tube integre and the sound is so beautiful if I compare to the Zen V4... Maybe because I use a very cheep preamplifier but.... my "cheep" tube amplifier sound so good when I turn up the volume !!!
Now, I will put my Zen V4 away from my system.... I will make the Bridge Of Zen... and I will try, I hope the sound will be good !!!
So, I don't realy like the sound of the Zen V4... even for the high frequency... the Zen V4 have no "punch" at all. !!! It is very bizarre !!!
I am disapoint now !!!
So Today, I put my little tube integre and the sound is so beautiful if I compare to the Zen V4... Maybe because I use a very cheep preamplifier but.... my "cheep" tube amplifier sound so good when I turn up the volume !!!
Now, I will put my Zen V4 away from my system.... I will make the Bridge Of Zen... and I will try, I hope the sound will be good !!!
So, I don't realy like the sound of the Zen V4... even for the high frequency... the Zen V4 have no "punch" at all. !!! It is very bizarre !!!
I am disapoint now !!!
I don't understand.... everybody on the forum say that the Zen have a wonderful sound.... maybe it has a problem with mine.....
Somebody think that it has a problem somewhere ????
Somebody think that it has a problem somewhere ????
fairness
Hi,
people should be fair to NP´s design.
I regard the Zen rather as a case study whats possible with a
single stage power amplifier, not as an absolute hi end design.
Uli
Hi,
people should be fair to NP´s design.
I regard the Zen rather as a case study whats possible with a
single stage power amplifier, not as an absolute hi end design.
Uli
I recall covering my *** on that one in the first article - it is an
exploration in minimalist design.
Also, I think it's appropriate to be certain that any example of a Zen built in the field has correctly emulated the performance of the original. I notice that virtually no one actually tests their projects for distortion, bandwidth, and so on. I would want to see the distortion curve any Zen amp that actually sounds bad.
exploration in minimalist design.
Also, I think it's appropriate to be certain that any example of a Zen built in the field has correctly emulated the performance of the original. I notice that virtually no one actually tests their projects for distortion, bandwidth, and so on. I would want to see the distortion curve any Zen amp that actually sounds bad.
What bias are you running? What are you using for feedback. I have noticed the Zen is very sensitive to the speakers it is driving. Maybe the way you have it set up doesn't match the drive you need for your speakers. Try more bias. Then change the feedback a little. The Zen is a very nice smooth sounding amp.
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