Actually i don't even work there anymore .... 😉
I don't think it's a case of bad silicon, but it can be a break-in problem. Sometimes this happens with the first units in a new series. Some part that gets overloaded under certain conditions maybe. (Just guessing).
As i understand each module is already pre-tested for at least 15 minutes operation, and so normal assembly failure is out of the question. But when op conditions change sometimes problems begin. I have talked with the LC people today, and of course this will all be solved very quickly (like in this weekend). And i am sure all will get a good and solid solution after that. And when i hear some news, i will of course keep you all posted 🙂
All the best from
Lars
PS Anybody in here who might have some experience about under which conditions they experienced problems, like voltage, load, change of load or any other input, would be highly appreciated. Please mail to me at: lc@dexa.dk THANKS!
Lars Clausen said:
Hi Lars
Thanks for the info, muchly appreciated.
Yes please, if you could keep us posted of any news, that would also be muchly appreciated 🙂
I went to L C Audio today, to assist them in locating the issues of the 700 XE. After reading the feedback here on this thread i had the preconception that there was some systematical flaw on the 700, that would cause it to fail, under normal use conditions. To find this flaw, i devised a series of stress tests:
1..Normal Condition, 400W in 4 Ohms, 1 Hour with hard music
2..Normal Condition, 700W in 4 Ohms, 30 minutes with hard music
(55 V AC 1000VA transformer).
3..Removing of 4 Ohms load at full power
4..Half insertion of phono plug, so only hot wire was connected
5..Full input level without any load
6..On and Off without any load
7..Ground speakerwire removed, while hot speaker wire connected and entangled with shielded input cable.
8..Removal i turn of plus, minus or GND power supply while playing and also at no output.
None of these conditions caused any problem for the module, it played along as usual. Point 1 and 2 could have contnued all day but since nothing was getting hot at all, i didn't see any point in going on.
I used Anzgar's returned module for most of the tests. And found out why he couldn't make it play. First of all the minus wire of the power supply had been moved to the 'Gate Drive' terminal. Secondly the input was shorted with a wire strand.
See picture below. It's playing on this photo, but as you see i'm using the minus input.
We did discover one problem though. The short circuit protection didn't seem to always work properly, so we could destroy modules by shorting the output at full power. Will look further into this of course. But i really doubt this is the problem Anzgar has observed. Tests will continue this weekend, as i got a couple of XE700 production modules to test at home. And my teenage son is using it for a party tonight, so i think it will get a good test also there. 🙂
If any of you have suggestions for further tests i can do, please post here. Thanks
1..Normal Condition, 400W in 4 Ohms, 1 Hour with hard music
2..Normal Condition, 700W in 4 Ohms, 30 minutes with hard music
(55 V AC 1000VA transformer).
3..Removing of 4 Ohms load at full power
4..Half insertion of phono plug, so only hot wire was connected
5..Full input level without any load
6..On and Off without any load
7..Ground speakerwire removed, while hot speaker wire connected and entangled with shielded input cable.
8..Removal i turn of plus, minus or GND power supply while playing and also at no output.
None of these conditions caused any problem for the module, it played along as usual. Point 1 and 2 could have contnued all day but since nothing was getting hot at all, i didn't see any point in going on.
I used Anzgar's returned module for most of the tests. And found out why he couldn't make it play. First of all the minus wire of the power supply had been moved to the 'Gate Drive' terminal. Secondly the input was shorted with a wire strand.
See picture below. It's playing on this photo, but as you see i'm using the minus input.
We did discover one problem though. The short circuit protection didn't seem to always work properly, so we could destroy modules by shorting the output at full power. Will look further into this of course. But i really doubt this is the problem Anzgar has observed. Tests will continue this weekend, as i got a couple of XE700 production modules to test at home. And my teenage son is using it for a party tonight, so i think it will get a good test also there. 🙂
If any of you have suggestions for further tests i can do, please post here. Thanks
Attachments
Thank you Lars,
when it comes to commitment, you still appear to be the owner of the company,and not like an employee, and definitely not like a non-employee!😀
when it comes to commitment, you still appear to be the owner of the company,and not like an employee, and definitely not like a non-employee!😀
Lars Clausen said:
The minus wire was not moved to the Gate drive terminal while running it-It might have been connected so to the contact afterwards before sending it back-I didn't use the contact while playing on it, the wires were soldered to the psu.The shortened input also was not shortened while testing, the strand just happened to shortcut when I soldered the modules away (I believe).Across the input I maesured 48k on the working module and 13 k on the silent one.
I sent two modules back, which one did you look at? One of them never played and the other one played the whole evening but burned
at switch on the following morning.
I played at a low volume perhaps a couple of watts and the loudspeakers were on all the time.
Did you say the module plays ?😕
All the better if it plays, then only one module is beyond repair😀
Anzgar: i have tested that one where you have wrote: 'This one has never been playing'.
I will maybe have a chance to look at the othr one next week.
There may still be something wrong, but the stress tests couldn't find it. So now i move to the long term tests.
A good weekend to you all 🙂
I will maybe have a chance to look at the othr one next week.
There may still be something wrong, but the stress tests couldn't find it. So now i move to the long term tests.
A good weekend to you all 🙂
Hi Lars,
That sounds like a good array of tests, that should build confidence, personally can't think of any others myself.
Good to see you helping them out at this stage of the game
Regards,
Chris
That sounds like a good array of tests, that should build confidence, personally can't think of any others myself.
Good to see you helping them out at this stage of the game
Regards,
Chris
Now i have played on the 700XE's for almost 3 full days. Different levels, music etc. And found no malfunctions at all.
It sounds great, and definitely much better than 2.3, even on this system with small 2 way scanspeak loudspeakers.
I feel like taking the next plane to Anzgar, with new modules, and tools to install it, and just make sure it's playing. You should hear this! But i guess i would have to pay for the ticket myself. It would be an expensive way of marketing somebody else's product. 😉
Also it would be interesting to observe how people handle and install the modules, to make them fail. I guess at some point i would have to say: NO NO don't do that! Do this instead! 😉
Important input for a good manual. (Which LC Audio haven't released yet).
It sounds great, and definitely much better than 2.3, even on this system with small 2 way scanspeak loudspeakers.
I feel like taking the next plane to Anzgar, with new modules, and tools to install it, and just make sure it's playing. You should hear this! But i guess i would have to pay for the ticket myself. It would be an expensive way of marketing somebody else's product. 😉
Also it would be interesting to observe how people handle and install the modules, to make them fail. I guess at some point i would have to say: NO NO don't do that! Do this instead! 😉
Important input for a good manual. (Which LC Audio haven't released yet).
Hi Lars,
Are there important differences for the 700XE with respect to the cookbook LCAudio wrote for the 2.2SE modules (of the "Do's and Dont's" and "Need to know" pages)?
Especially in the to the connection draings.
But you are right, LCaudio should be providing this kind of info now (or pay you to do so)
Are there important differences for the 700XE with respect to the cookbook LCAudio wrote for the 2.2SE modules (of the "Do's and Dont's" and "Need to know" pages)?
Especially in the to the connection draings.
But you are right, LCaudio should be providing this kind of info now (or pay you to do so)
Hi Duck Twacy
In most respects the connections from 2.2 cookbook also applies to 700XE.
I recommend though using the Predator power supply, as it plugs right together with the 700 XE's for instant play capability.
All the best from
Lars
In most respects the connections from 2.2 cookbook also applies to 700XE.
I recommend though using the Predator power supply, as it plugs right together with the 700 XE's for instant play capability.
All the best from
Lars
Lars Clausen said:
I've been thinking about the shortened input. When the module didn't play I measured the resistance from + input to ground to see if there was a shortcircuit.If so I should measure zero ohms, but I measured 13 kohm ( the then working module measured 48 kohm)which made me think there was something wrong with the input circuit and I took the module out of the box.The strand that shorts as seen on your photo is a residue after soldering away the input wires in a hurry to get them sent back to LC Audio asap.
What input resistance do you measure?Does it differ on different modules?Did you get this module out of the parcel yourself or was it handed to you,can it be another one than mine?
What have caused the faillure of the modules is most probable related to the power supply. I have ordered the Predator psu today
to avoid another disaster.
Thank you very much for your concern and effort to help!
It only took a few seconds even in mono to hear that 700XE is much better than the SE.
Sorry .. sorry .. SORRY ...!
Anzgar, i owe you an apology!
I went to L C Audio today to have a second look at your returned module, Your measurements should have lead me straight to the problem.
It turned out a resistor in the input stage of the plus input was not properly soldered. This meant the plus input was silent, while the minus input played just fine.
Now one problem found!
All the best from
Lars
Anzgar, i owe you an apology!
I went to L C Audio today to have a second look at your returned module, Your measurements should have lead me straight to the problem.
It turned out a resistor in the input stage of the plus input was not properly soldered. This meant the plus input was silent, while the minus input played just fine.
Now one problem found!
All the best from
Lars
Dear Lars,
Are all the other ordered modules being sent out already or are they still waiting for the final OK from you?
Are all the other ordered modules being sent out already or are they still waiting for the final OK from you?
I have asked them to hold them back until that problem with the short circuit protection is found and corrected. Shouldnt be a few days.
Re: Sorry .. sorry .. SORRY ...!
So it wasn't my mistake-good, now I can begin to rebuild my self-confidence...
Lars Clausen said:
So it wasn't my mistake-good, now I can begin to rebuild my self-confidence...
Lars Clausen said:
Do you mean: Should be a few days? I f you mean shouldn't, it should be many days (the opposite of a few days)😀
How is it going ?
Anzgar
Anzgar: I will probably get the green light tomorrow to go ahead and fix the problem. I can't just commision myself to work for somebody you know 😉
So maybe already by monday they will start shipping out again.
So maybe already by monday they will start shipping out again.
Lars,
Can you please inform us about the min and max DC voltages the
ZapPulse 700XE will work under. You said before that about 79V
DC was just right, but as I now have a kind of puzzle with some transformers, the upper and lower limits are of interest to me!
Regards
Håkan
Can you please inform us about the min and max DC voltages the
ZapPulse 700XE will work under. You said before that about 79V
DC was just right, but as I now have a kind of puzzle with some transformers, the upper and lower limits are of interest to me!
Regards
Håkan
Hi Lars,
Maybe they should hire you and pay you a decent wage. I can't help but get the impression by recent and even passed events that they don't know enough themselves to support the module. Their lack of presence on the forum and failure to respond to emails seems to point this way.
I also doubt the modules were pre-tested either based on the bad solder joint. How many other modules did they get back with that same problem?
If they can't do it themselves they need someone who can.
Make them pay for it though, people shouldn't have to work for free 🙂
Regards,
Chris
Maybe they should hire you and pay you a decent wage. I can't help but get the impression by recent and even passed events that they don't know enough themselves to support the module. Their lack of presence on the forum and failure to respond to emails seems to point this way.
I also doubt the modules were pre-tested either based on the bad solder joint. How many other modules did they get back with that same problem?
If they can't do it themselves they need someone who can.
Make them pay for it though, people shouldn't have to work for free 🙂
Regards,
Chris
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