Your favorite 4-5” midrange driver?

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#63
From that frequency response ... I would use the Beyma 8M60N from 350Hz to 3000Hz maximum. Off axis will be a mess at 5kHz.
When it's sounding good in your room at your listening position ... just don't move the speaker in a different room ;-)

A midrange like the PHL 5" would be more linear up to 5k and more linear off axis - but gives more SPL off axis, would need to be treated a little different as a 8".
 
#65
Thanks for the datasheets!
ATC SM75-150(S) has a 3,5mm coil and 5mm gap! That's only +-0,75 Xmax ...
Bliesma M74A has a 1,8mm coil and 4,2mm gap ... +-1,2mm Xmax

ATC has Mms of 9,5g
Bliesma Mms of 2,3g (!)

ATC has significant stronger motor but through the low mass the M74B has a better sensitivity, M74A has about the same as SM75-150S. Weight is 9kg vs 0,7kg 🤓

ATC fs = 320Hz
Bliesma fs = 400Hz
So when sticking with these data and ATC is using it from 380Hz Bliesma should be save from 500Hz or a little lower.
 
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#66
Yes but there is still room for more excursion.
Theoretically 0,75mm of movement completely within the gap either side, xmax tends to be defined as 70% of BL by most mgfs.
Voice Coil Maximum Travel Peak to Peak - 6 mm

The original ones were overhung with more xmax, this is the 'modern' underhung ones.
 
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#67
if you only use it to 1500hz, the visaton al130m has a great decay.

al30m_decay_1m_3ms.png
REW's spl's were not calibrated. I do have 3" of melamine and a 11" box behind the driver.

The thing that really stood out is it has a very flat group delay on the way to 1500hz.

more : https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/headshakes-far-field-3way.382393/post-7230293
 
#68
IamJF said:
From that frequency response ... I would use the Beyma 8M60N from 350Hz to 3000Hz maximum. Off axis will be a mess at 5kHz.
When it's sounding good in your room at your listening position ... just don't move the speaker in a different room ;-)

A midrange like the PHL 5" would be more linear up to 5k and more linear off axis - but gives more SPL off axis, would need to be treated a little different as a 8".
Click to expand...

Listening tests in larger rooms (50m2) proved to be successfull too - fine close to axis (up to 20°) and acceptable over :

1704817459756.png


T
 
#75
Btw Ben,

Do you have any distortion measurements of the 830991?

I tried the 830656, but didn’t like it. The lack of demodulation device was a deal breaker for me.

The 831882 is a hidden gem. If they made it in black it would have sold better IMHO.
 
#77

Your favorite 4-5” midrange driver?​


Well, I love this size range of mids! They deliver optimal performance for HiFi living room sound creation!
They can be highpassed to uncountless woofers in many standard 3-way applications, and can be lowpassed to nearly all typical 1" Hifi tweeters under respecting both comfort behaviour tightly incuding the radiation! Somehow 2-2,7k serves me enough. 🙂


1) I have a 5" SB15NBAC here with bucking magnet and passive serial notch on the cone breakup resonance, active filtered then at 250Hz LR4 to two 10" woofers and 2,2kHz LR4 to the tweeter. It plays very flawless and transparent, and can keep up well with both woofers. The magnet system provides capable low SNR in the mids, and the membrane shows nice pattern control of the circumferencial modes and high, easy to handle first transversal mode at 10k thanks to the stiffenig ribs.

--> Not a withewasher, very deep resolution, not for exceptionally high SPL requirements. Give it a bucking magnet and that passive notch.

So my choice, when you search a hard aluminum membran driver for really CLEAR HiFi living room sound application, and it is absolutely reasonably priced.

Seas L16RNX3 might be within the same ballpark, but more expensive also material efford shows higher. Visaton AL130 has surprisingly nice measurements, but SB15NBAC has advantages to me by the ribs and a larger VC.


2) I also have a 4" Kartesian_Mid120 here with series resistor for local current feedback, active filtered at 270Hz LR4 and 2,6kHz LR4. It plays very neutral, uncoloured and is perhaps the loudest small 4" you can get. Strong, low distortion neodymium magnet, thermal capable large aluminum voicecoil, very lightweight moving mass and lossless inverse fabric surround. The flat, but due to the carbon fibre cap stiff membrane shows very wide radiation.
But breakup >>3kHz is hard to handle. I would have no desire to tame the lowpass on the upper end with a passive filter.

--> Sounds unobtrusive in a good way, likewise no whitewasher, can bÄng!, bitXXy to filter.

If you have an amp channel with some voltage swing and kind of "modern" Ncore technology that shows quite improving SINAD for higher power, spend it a local current feedback resistor. Lowers motor current distortion and improves amplification current distortion for the unique costs of the part and its always bit some thermal wattage. I have two Isabellenhüette PBH in parallel on a tiny heatsink.

My recommendation, when you search a wide dispersion, neutral and dynamical driver for nicely DRY HiFi living room sound, and have some bucks to spend.

Passive and/or LR2 filter? Take Scan Speak 12MU, as same exhausted, a little sheep to filter. Kartesian might get 1-2 dB louder. After some paramter analysis SB1212MNRX2-25-4 looks like a canidate for 2nd place with very high value to me. For its smaller voicecoil it shoud get also nicely loud.

​

3) I just bought a 5" 15M/8631G00 that arrived few days ago and lay now on my table.
I decided to try now other taste of HiFi living room sound from a Revelator that kind of I have sweet memories in remind from a very past project.
It has impressingly build quality and you see that some of your money went to material efford in comparison with SB15NBAC of very general type kind.

For style of some passive classic floostander with LR2 lowpass with stepped baffle tweeter for phase matching and hopefully just a coil for the mid. The step at 1kHz in the driver response be well be compensated by the baffle step diffraction in enclosures of width between roughly 20-25 cm according published measurements and my baffle simulation. Then the response shall be pretty flat in the midband and bravely rolling off thanks to nice pattern control of the slit feature application. Such behaviour needs smooth wideband support from beside driver partners, so it becomes ideal for optimized passive xover that needs less parts because there is no need to correct and shape resposes and resonances or deal distortion mechanisms.

Found a perfecly geometrically fitting Y35 ring magnet at an online store for 5.-€ a piece plus shipping, will try if gives benefit. A decibel sensitivity would help to pair with parallel woofers. Want to keep the baffle within the response optimum width range, so there is some tradeoff preference for two smaller than one wider woofer.

The revelator is my latests choice during searching for drivers giving this time sweet SMOOTH HiFi living room sound. I await really happy reproduction soon!
Value alternatives may be discovery midwoofers, they behave also very smooth. But the Revelator is pretty SOTA when you search for nice rolloff drivers.

Seems that I prefer 5" mids with also dedicated cone pattern control (ribs/slits) for good stable mechanoacoustically transfer behavior, it has benefits. You use these cone size usually up to 2k in a 3-way, whereas phase shifts and circumferential modes start to play a role even from > 1k for common centric driven membrans in that diameter range.

That behavior colors the sound somehow to my ears and this leads me to categorize the received sound with buzzwords. It also leads to different speaker concepts I choose.
So for me there is no best driver, just the best for the speaker overall type and sound signature preference. You can select different flavour / philosophy directions and choose exhausted ones for their kind of. The rest is personal taste.


4) Maybe some time I will also try FRESH HiFi living room sound with much power, bam and high SPL capability. There I would go for a 5" pro driver, new 5PR160 shows overall most promising data in the market tradeoff between calculated SPL capability, published responses smoothness, construction features and quality indicating parameters. With two 10RS430 per side or so in vented as woofers, actively filtered LR4 a bit higher, that may give a impressingly capable but still compact solution.


Best regards
Peter
 
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#78
listening to Dynaudio MW152 now, while i had time to listen Esotar 430 on my friend setup few months ago and were best mid i ever heard then decided to get a pair which currently being build by my fellow speaker builder, can't wait to hear final result.
PRV AUDIO 5MR450-NDY-4 and Alpair 10p were my fav too, but they are history now

esotar_430_side.jpg
 
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#80
@IamJF : Thanks! What do you find so special about them? Have you experience and comparison with this 5" PA mids? There are some nice appearing drivers out there of that kind: PHL 930, Faital 5PR160, Sica 5M1.5PL, BMS 5S117, and some from B&C and Beyma look all well usable as HiFi mid.

Some clear and some smooth 5" mids with cone vibration control features currently on my table:

1707587846680.png


https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/kl...ture/Papers/KLIPPEL_Cone_Vibration_Poster.pdf
https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/kl...ure/Papers/KLIPPEL_Sound_Radiation_Poster.pdf
 
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