You & Your Friend + Keith Don't Go - why do people play these songs to show off their speakers?

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#103
Just checked: Shostakovich's symphony No7 peaked at 115dB and in 2008 the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra cancelled a performance of 'State of Siege' by Dror Feiler averaged(!) 97.4dB because it left the musicians with ringing in their ears and fell foul of European safety at work directives.

Generally hearing damage is quite frequent among classical musicians.

(All were measured on stage, not in the audience)
 
#105
SomekPoland said:
The biggest flex when presenting somebody your system is to say: "play whatever you like".
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I find that's a not-so-good idea for those people that haven't heard good recordings on a pretty capable system. In the past, I learned to first play a few short demos of music from sources that I knew demonstrated the hi-fi performance of the setup. When I turned it over to the visitor(s), then it was easy to hear what was occurring with the music they chose/brought. (I don't ask anyone over since the year 2020, unfortunately: you can guess the reason...)

StigErik said:
No. Have no idea what SPL there was in the hall. Was pretty loud inside the orchestra though!
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Exactly. Most of my music listening as a young musician (less than 20) was on-stage. It gets loud--even in full orchestras (over 100 dB at my seat at times). Once you step off stage, the levels (and engagement, I find) drop as a function of distance. Localization of sound also dramatically drops once you leave the stage area. Try it sometime and listen at real concerts for "soundstage"--and I think you'll be quite surprised how little soundstage localization is in the audience. However, envelopment from different directions is the real key in the "live" experience, I've found.

When I say "concert level", I'm saying (for acoustical instrumentation only), on-stage levels. That's where the goosebumps (i.e., frission) really occur, and a lot of people may not have ever experienced that. So my "concert level" may be much louder than theirs--if we're not talking about amplified instruments.

The only time that I couldn't really stand a live acoustic sound in the audience was when Stan Kenton and his orchestra came to town. The trumpet section was so unbearably loud in the first 25 rows that it brought pain to the ears.

Other than that, concert volume, when talking about full orchestral/choral compositions, can easily get to 100 dB on the transients and stay in the upper 90s. That's loud to my ears. I don't usually play anything that loud, but the setup is more than capable of playing at that level without thermal compression--continuously. Most home hi-fi direct radiating loudspeakers usually have trouble handling those levels--for more than a few seconds.
 
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#106
Cask05 said:
On a fully horn-loaded and dialed-in 5.1 setup that I believe can handle that composition at concert volume, when I play Carmina Burana in 5.1 (from the DVD-A by the Atlanta Symphony and Chorus, Runnicles, 2001) vs. the stereo layer off the same disc, the difference is so startling that I wonder if it's actually the same performance.

Have you heard that kind of difference off a hybrid multichannel disc before? This implies to me that the direction of the sound from the echo surround channels is pretty critical to hearing that particular composition in a way that convinces the listener of the authenticity of the performance.

There are many other music compositions that I find this effect to be true, and some, not so much. The stereo layer and the 5.1 layer are not so far apart--but the sense of envelopment is still extremely different. I believe the point is that there are some extremely difficult musical compositions to reproduce well.

In the past, I remember when the sound of pianos and female voices was difficult to reproduce, as well as pipe organ and piano, solo clarinet, solo violin, and massed string orchestras (which sounded steely and unnatural). Since then, I've found that in about 50% of those cases nowadays, it's the mastering guy that needs to be hung up by his toes (i.e., playing with EQ and smashing the mixdown tracks in dynamic range more than the recording engineer did--all to make the resulting tracks louder--which is something I didn't ask for, and no alternative un-smashed versions were offered from the mixdown tracks). Some of the issues were related to analog tape recorders having unsteady speed through the pinch rollers and very limited dynamic range (SNR), especially at low frequencies. Digital recording eliminated most of those issues and later higher sampling rates and bit depths eliminated the sound decay issues of earlier digital recorders.

In the remaining 50%, the introduction of 5.1 recordings and playback eliminated perhaps 25% of the problems with these types of demanding recordings, and DSP crossovers with flattened transfer function loudspeakers and much better designed controlled directivity horns provided the elements to eliminate or control the remaining issues not in the bucket of recording (microphone placement and type) or mastering issues.

JMTC.

Chris
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No, i have not heard multichannel disk. I got only two ears.

I have heard Carmina almost every year till covid in Strathmore concert hall, here in metro dc area. One of the best venues here. I used to live in walking distance. I heard many requiems and handel's massiah type concerts.
 
#108
adason said:
Too loud screaching sound from all directions.
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No ill tidings intended. None whatsoever.

It must have been a JBL sound system in that Regal theater (...I'm joking...but not too much...based on recent experience.) I do understand your comment about "too loud". It's been my experience, too.

Home hi-fi is a different animal however since the volume control is fully in my control, and I get to choose the music. I of course find that high quality multichannel music discs and loudspeaker setups to be much more enjoyable than anything I've experienced stereo only (with or without added video). That's why I brought up the availability of multichannel music. I also don't attend live music concerts like I used to--because of the same reason you brought up. Multichannel is one way to fill some of that live music listening experience gap--at home, instead.

To be sure, I've also run into bad multichannel music discs (mostly produced more than 20 years ago). Those discs collect dust.

Regards,

Chris
 
#111
scholl said:
I bought my copy 20 some years ago and luckily have the FZ approved version without added reverb. Where can I find the analog remaster, is that vinyl only?

FWIW the FZ approved version is still very good sounding. A small notch below the remaster of Joe's but Joe's is a few years newer production too.
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Yes, vinyl only. I think the CD version I have is the Ryko with the white spine, which as a whole are the worst-sounding version of any given FZ album.

I know OSFA like the back of my hand and with the latest master it sounds like I'm hearing it for the first time. No exaggeration. I haven't broken the seal on the new Waka Jawaka vinyl release yet, an album I know as well if not better than OSFA - should be an interesting listen.
 
#114
Ok…. I’ve never really listened to this Keith don’t go track, but I finally did. It’s on the Acoustic live album, which I probably ripped from someones CD. Anyway, it was on my file server.

What a load of crap… He knows his chops on the guitar, but can’t really sing. Very boring performance. And the sound….. I can’t understand what the fuzz is all about. Awful compression. The guitar sounds unnatural with all that stereo chorus effect, and it’s probably a piezo mic inside the guitar too. I think it’s a plastic body Takamine he’s playing there. It’s easy to find way better demo tracks than this!
 
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#119
I generally use well-recorded classical or jazz to test the resolving power of a given system. If the system resolving power is good, you can pick out what the percussion is doing in back of an orchestra in full cry. If the resolving power is bad, you get undifferentiated mush. A favorite recording of mine is conductor Guilini's take on the Ravel orchestration of Mussorgsky's Pictures At An Exhibition on DG. The segment "House On Fowl's Legs" is a good test of system resolving power. It's also a good shake-down of a system re handling high volume.

Yo - this is the one I'm talking about...
https://www.discogs.com/release/898...ky-Prokofieff-Pictures-At-An-Exhibition-Class

Another fave is the Neville Mariner recording of Vivaldi's Four Seasons on Decca/Argo
https://www.discogs.com/master/2089...e-Marriner-With-Alan-Loveday-The-Four-Seasons
 
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