I would like to know more analog crossovers similar to this models from Fostex, EN3000 and EN3020, EN3000 appears regularly to sell in Japan, the more sophisticated one EN3020 it's much more hard to find...
Anyway, would like to know more units with similar characteristics like this ones, very straight forward 3 way, easy to use.
For those who not know this Fostex, here they are:
EN3000: EN3000 FOSTEX - 中古オーディオ 高価買取・販売 ハイファイ堂
EN3020: EN3020 FOSTEX - HiFi-Do McIntosh/JBL/audio-technica/Jeff Rowland/Accuphase
Thanks.
No DSP's recommendations please.
Anyway, would like to know more units with similar characteristics like this ones, very straight forward 3 way, easy to use.
For those who not know this Fostex, here they are:
EN3000: EN3000 FOSTEX - 中古オーディオ 高価買取・販売 ハイファイ堂
EN3020: EN3020 FOSTEX - HiFi-Do McIntosh/JBL/audio-technica/Jeff Rowland/Accuphase
Thanks.
No DSP's recommendations please.
Analogue active xovers are very difficult to set up, much more than passive ones. Unless they are designed for a specific loudspeaker system.
No wonder they are dissappearing. Digital DSP systems are just so much more powerful that it is not a fair comparison.
Generic analogue active units (Accuphases included) provide only textbook filters, very often with limited frequency crossing points, most all have no phase reversal option, most all have no EQ avilable, and so forth...the tool pool is very limited. Probably it is the most misunderstood and misused piece of audio gear.
Even for an experienced designer (with measuring capabilities) it will be tough designing with it. But then, those who know, design their own.
Having said that, the one unit (short of designing your own) which does provide some flexibility with various filters, EQ, delay - with plug-in modules - is Marchand XM-44.
No wonder they are dissappearing. Digital DSP systems are just so much more powerful that it is not a fair comparison.
Generic analogue active units (Accuphases included) provide only textbook filters, very often with limited frequency crossing points, most all have no phase reversal option, most all have no EQ avilable, and so forth...the tool pool is very limited. Probably it is the most misunderstood and misused piece of audio gear.
Even for an experienced designer (with measuring capabilities) it will be tough designing with it. But then, those who know, design their own.
Having said that, the one unit (short of designing your own) which does provide some flexibility with various filters, EQ, delay - with plug-in modules - is Marchand XM-44.
I use analogue DBX 234XL partly for the same reason. It has phase inverters by the way. I have noise issues that I havent solved, so I cant recommend it as of now. Still it may be me not getting the cabling right. I found it not hard, but timeconsuming to dial in great sound by ears. It took a couple of weeks. First I set it roughly. then I ocationally made incremental adjustments with fresh ears. Forget about adjusting anything after 15 minutes of listening. Measurements would make the initial setting much more correct.
I dont think going DSP is a huge compromise. I theory its problematic with extra analogue to digital and the other way around, but dsp solutions seem to sound great anyways.
Yes it depends on the quality both ADC and DAC
Cheers!
Thanks Guerilla, it's interesting because appears to be a consensus the DSP outperforms the analog ones, but every user that advocates that, always forget to tell that their main source is digital hehehe...
Don't make any sense convert the phono signal to digital and back to analog again, all the quality of your phono stage it's simply take out of the equation in some sense, and also.. DACs are always improving, so you must be always upgrading the DAC on the DSP..
Don't make any sense convert the phono signal to digital and back to analog again, all the quality of your phono stage it's simply take out of the equation in some sense, and also.. DACs are always improving, so you must be always upgrading the DAC on the DSP..
Makes sense to convert to digital, because it allows you to use dsp for xover and so on. I would like a good DSP based Riaa so I could stop worrying about the ADC part.
DACs have allready been good enough for many years. Just hard to find one that is implemented to perform very good and still be afordable. audiosciencereview.com has some examples. Digital to analogue converssion in the poweramp itself would lower the amount of conversions, but then you would have to search for a DSP with digital multiway output as opposed to a multiway DAC.
We share the same worries, and I hope we can have the cake and eat it too some day. For now I have good sound from my 3 way analogue assisted by a graphic equalizer below 300hz. Some day in the future I will try digital.
Cheers!
DACs have allready been good enough for many years. Just hard to find one that is implemented to perform very good and still be afordable. audiosciencereview.com has some examples. Digital to analogue converssion in the poweramp itself would lower the amount of conversions, but then you would have to search for a DSP with digital multiway output as opposed to a multiway DAC.
We share the same worries, and I hope we can have the cake and eat it too some day. For now I have good sound from my 3 way analogue assisted by a graphic equalizer below 300hz. Some day in the future I will try digital.
Cheers!
Some are doing RIAA eq in digital domain. I dont know of any commercial offerings. All usb turntables convert after EQ I think. Both ways are chalenging to get right. Just imagine the differences between pickups one has to consider when desiding gain, limiter and such. A smart Greek on here even compensates the frequensyresponse of his pickup in digital domain.
Well going digital after pickup cartridge could have you need only good digital to analog conversion in the poweramps which may be plateamps in the speakers.
I guess a cheap USB turntable in combination with an active monitor with usb-input and dsp-crossover allready today can give us a dream scenario for little money. Only problem is the quality of said products.
Cheers!
Well going digital after pickup cartridge could have you need only good digital to analog conversion in the poweramps which may be plateamps in the speakers.
I guess a cheap USB turntable in combination with an active monitor with usb-input and dsp-crossover allready today can give us a dream scenario for little money. Only problem is the quality of said products.
Cheers!
It makes perfect sense if you want to do lots of configurable signal processing as this is easy to do in the digital domain in a completely flexably way, whereas with analog processing you need lots of hardware and many many compromises to make - analog crossovers are usually tailored to a specific speaker for a good reason - its hard to make variable delay filters and matched variable cross-over frequency filters, doable, but costly and tricky.
Phono signal is pretty low-fi compared to any modern digital equipment of course, just the SNR is orders of magnitude worse for instance, so the quality of the signal isn't going to be degraded whatever route you go down, not till the speaker at least. Phono isn't much better than 12 bit equivalent from a noise perspective. Most DSP these days is 24 bit or 32 bit, no contest.
The distortion of even the best phono setups is measured in percent, not thousandths of a percent. How much more can such a signal be damaged?
Here is a newer version of my analog crossover DKK 504.91 9%OFF | The 234XS is a stereo three-way, stereo two-way and mono four-way electronic crossover
AliExpress
Here is mine: DKK 372.16 | High Quality Stereo 2/3 Way Mono 4-Way Crossover,Professional musical instructment crossover 234XL Electronic crossover for sell
AliExpress
There is an unballanced version that would have given me less noise isues im pretty sure, but Im going ballance for amplifier too now.
Cheers!
AliExpress
Here is mine: DKK 372.16 | High Quality Stereo 2/3 Way Mono 4-Way Crossover,Professional musical instructment crossover 234XL Electronic crossover for sell
AliExpress
There is an unballanced version that would have given me less noise isues im pretty sure, but Im going ballance for amplifier too now.
Cheers!
@Mark Tillotson The thing is that many of us really enjoy listening to turntables and dont want to loose the sonic qualities they may have. That is why many of us are veary? about converting back and forth before it reaches our speaker. This is regardless of specs and theoretical measurements.
Cheers!
Cheers!
I think I will hear for myself what all this challenges that people keep to discouraging me to choose a analog crossover hehehe...
Will get an Accuphase F-15L, http://www.accuphase.com/cat/f-15len.pdf
Will try to solve the phase issue just align the voice coils from super tweeter, radial horn, and woofer.
Don't know man, digitalize the phono signal and convert to analog again don't make sense for me, but I also wanna hear this for myself too.
Will get an Accuphase F-15L, http://www.accuphase.com/cat/f-15len.pdf
Will try to solve the phase issue just align the voice coils from super tweeter, radial horn, and woofer.
Don't know man, digitalize the phono signal and convert to analog again don't make sense for me, but I also wanna hear this for myself too.
Accuphase is good stuff. Aligning as you describe would be my approach as well, but my speakers are commercial ones I converted to active filter.
Your link gives me a warning of unsafe site and Edgebrowser wont let me open.
To experience the digital way you could have a listen to Pro-ject Phono Box DS2 into an active speaker with dsp crossover Phono Box DS2 USB – Pro-Ject Audio Systems I didnt hear it
cheers!
Your link gives me a warning of unsafe site and Edgebrowser wont let me open.
To experience the digital way you could have a listen to Pro-ject Phono Box DS2 into an active speaker with dsp crossover Phono Box DS2 USB – Pro-Ject Audio Systems I didnt hear it
cheers!
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Audio Selbstbau, Thel, Endstufen, Vorstufen, Aktivweichen, analoge Netzteile, Netzfilter
"Aktive Filtertechnik"
"Aktive Filtertechnik"
The link is from Accuphase official website, the F-15L crossover brochure and specs....
Just adding a voice that has tested comparing all-analog vs analog->digital->analog. I tested about 14 years ago how my vinyl recordings sounded when digitized by a decent sound card, compared with the original. Honestly, I could not tell any difference. The "vinyl sound" was fully intact. Since then, I have retired my analog crossover, and use an OrangePi instead. My vinyl rips still sound like they did years ago, and the new digital stuff sounds even better.
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