Time to make yourself a christmas gift, Tomahawk
AUDIOCONTROL SA-3052 REAL TIME 30 BAND SPECTRUM ANALYZER & SPL 136 db METER NEW
*evil laughing*
AUDIOCONTROL SA-3052 REAL TIME 30 BAND SPECTRUM ANALYZER & SPL 136 db METER NEW
*evil laughing*
Time for you Jon to enter the twenty first century and save two thousand bucks 😀😛😎
REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software
MDAC-2, 2950 $
MADA-2A, 3995 $
crazy money.
USD too, like Santa going to deliver one of these to me 🙂
Lots of coin, I would expect the best of the best.
discrete jfet class A
Would you say it is worth the investment? I guess if you have more money $ than you need, it makes sense. People on a budget, reporting to the wife, it is hard to justify such an expense.
I was surprised to see them publishing schematics of their jfet opamp and other ckts. Pretty simple and a common topology. What else, obsolete Toshiba jfets. I think I will sim it up and see what it measures just for the fun of it.
MADA-2A, 3995 $
crazy money.
USD too, like Santa going to deliver one of these to me 🙂
Lots of coin, I would expect the best of the best.
discrete jfet class A
Would you say it is worth the investment? I guess if you have more money $ than you need, it makes sense. People on a budget, reporting to the wife, it is hard to justify such an expense.
I was surprised to see them publishing schematics of their jfet opamp and other ckts. Pretty simple and a common topology. What else, obsolete Toshiba jfets. I think I will sim it up and see what it measures just for the fun of it.
Interesting comments about AMT's. I wonder about a couple of things. 1st - whether they really need a sparkling capacitor like the Mundorf Silver-oil types.
Second, I noticed Legacy is using a dual AMT arrangement in some of their speakers. A small AMT on top of a larger one. I thought this was rather curious until I read the comments about them sounding slightly dark.
Best,
Erik
Second, I noticed Legacy is using a dual AMT arrangement in some of their speakers. A small AMT on top of a larger one. I thought this was rather curious until I read the comments about them sounding slightly dark.
Best,
Erik
Forssell products are not cheap.
That being said, in the professionnal audio world it seems to be considered a bargain, compared to much more expensive machines. And i'm not even talking about the hi-fi market, which is overpriced by a factor of 2x, 3x, or 10x based on PA prices...
Does it worth the investment?
I question my self at this very moment about that. I'm not too much of an electronic guy, to begin with. I'm not into fancy amplifiers, power supply, cables, transport, preamp, etc... I'm more of a speaker/room acoustic type of guy and the electronic that interests me is more about DSP, electronic xover, EQ, etc... All related to speakers...
BUT, the thing is, with that kind of ultra-DAC you really feel you're extracting the most from the transducer. And, without it you feel you don't really get the real potential of any given speaker.
I never, ever, felt the same with, let's say, an amplifier or a cable or a preamp. Not even close.
So i guess it's worthy of the investment if you spent a lot on your speakers and really want to get the most of it. In the case of ''World's best tweeters'', i really think the DAC is a very important part of the equation.
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Next big thing to try regarding tweeters, is the line array.
Will a group of ''cheap'' tweeter perform as good or better as a single high-end tweeter per side ?
Will a group of ''cheap'' tweeter perform as good or better as a single high-end tweeter per side ?
And the big winner of this face-off is.... The hornless Radian 950PBbe !
No, seriously, the compression driver (used as a Midrange, of course!) take so much of the show, it's difficult to focus on the higher frequencies. I'd say that anything below 3.5khz is Radian 950PBbe's territory. Both Beyma TPL150H and RAAL 140-15D were having a hard time competing with it in the different crossover points we tried from 2.2khz to 3.5khz.
That was particulary unfortunate for the Beyma since that bandwith was supposed to be his forte... and the last two octaves his weakness... 😱
The 140-15D was, as expected, much more at ease in those last 2 octaves and, finally, the optimal crossover point seems to be somewhere between 3.7khz and 4.6khz when paired with that hornless 950PBbe.
So, unfortunately, this face-off is of little help for those who seek a lower crossover point, with a more ''normal'' midrange driver... That being said, i see no reason to use the Beyma TPL150H considering his price point over a RAAL, unless your crossover point is ½ octave lower than what the 140-15D is comfortable to do. But then again, you lose a lot of top-end resolution, energy and finesse.
I concur with all of the above regarding Raal vs TPL AMT particularly with crossover points. Neither sound as comfortable as a dedicated midrange driver below 3k and above 3k the Raal outclasses the TPL and pretty much anything else
A horn and DSP are not equivalent (or interchangeable) in this regard. The horn changes the dispersion pattern ... the DSP does not.
And the big winner of this face-off is.... The hornless Radian 950PBbe !
No, seriously, the compression driver (used as a Midrange, of course!) take so much of the show, it's difficult to focus on the higher frequencies. I'd say that anything below 3.5khz is Radian 950PBbe's territory. Both Beyma TPL150H and RAAL 140-15D were having a hard time competing with it in the different crossover points we tried from 2.2khz to 3.5khz.
That was particulary unfortunate for the Beyma since that bandwith was supposed to be his forte... and the last two octaves his weakness... 😱
The 140-15D was, as expected, much more at ease in those last 2 octaves and, finally, the optimal crossover point seems to be somewhere between 3.7khz and 4.6khz when paired with that hornless 950PBbe.
So, unfortunately, this face-off is of little help for those who seek a lower crossover point, with a more ''normal'' midrange driver... That being said, i see no reason to use the Beyma TPL150H considering his price point over a RAAL, unless your crossover point is ½ octave lower than what the 140-15D is comfortable to do. But then again, you lose a lot of top-end resolution, energy and finesse.
Very interesting, thank you! This pretty much reflects my opinion, too.
Basically, any lightweight diaphragm technology tweeter has nothing against a well executed cone drivers under 3k, let alone those 4" dome compression drivers stripped naked.
This reminds me; of one of the best midrange sounds I've ever listened was back in the early '90s, a Community M4 (the old series, with Aluminum diaphragm) with phase plug off and dampening added behind the diaphragm. Huge surface area (6.5" in dia.). Completely crazy stuff! The thing is 12" in diameter! And very cheap these days:
Community M4 Midrange Compression Driver Fully Tested & VERY Clean Unit DCR: 4.5 | eBay
With that being said, I think you'll get better results if you remove the back cover on Radian and listen the dome facing front, while the phase plug side looks at the back chamber that you must make for it (a foot long 3-4" pipe loosely stuffed with cotton wool will probably work well), but these things do best in open baffle speakers (no back chambers at all).
Also, on some dome compression drivers (like CF, Phenolic and other composite domes) a good mod would be to remove the phase plug and have the back of the dome firing freely into a chamber or free air (in open baffle), but care should be taken, as phase plugs also work on dampening the resonant modes of the dome by proximity to it, where viscosity of air in the narrow air space between the plug and dome becomes a factor. If the dome rings and bends too much (like thin metal ones) the kind of dampening that phase plug does, can't be replaced by wool behind the dome...
If you go this route, check also Renkus-Heinz SSD 5600, a 5.6" dome compression driver that can also be turned around and work as a direct radiator with or without a back chamber...
Merry Christmas to all!
old ReVox monitors , entire front covered in special foam , just resembling plain sponge
you can spend two shifts in front of them ,without headache
but , remove foam , everything is screaming and you'll need to go away in 15min. max
I have had quite a lot AMT's and the RAAL Ribbons in the past. I can confirm that almost all of the bigger AMT's are lacking top end. I have tried two ESS and the Beyma. That's why I only use the smaller ones nowadays. The RAAL 150-15 had way too much vertical directivity, even with the foam plugs attached. The foam plug also took away too much of there dynamics. IMHO the RAALs where only useful from 8khz on up. Beneath that the smaller amt's are more realistic. They have a sound signature somewhere between a compression driver and a ribbon and have enough to pend sparkle. The RAALs are better on the very top but overall I like the amt's more
Years ago I also played around with naked compression drivers, I also liked them better with the domes on the front with a damped transmission line on the back. Used with the exit hole on front the sound was just too much scattering around, in the long run I didn't like it. Dome up front combined with a super tweeter of the same dynamic behavior (utmost important) it can be a very open and dynamic combo hard to find anywhere else. Combination with midrange can be hard though, even with all the dsp available today. DSP does not change dynamic behavior of drivers. I have abandoned it because it forced me to crossover in the 1-2khz region right where dynamic behavior and power response of the individual drivers is very critical to get it all right. As always, there is no free lunch.
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Then you have not experienced Raal. But yes, the TPL-150 did seems to have a more powerful sound, in the tweeter range. Maybe becuse it could produce sound down to 2kHz, and the Raal could not. I also compared to a four different Yamaha Ja-4281B compression tweeters, which is very sofisticated horn tweeters, but they were very harsh compared to both the AMT and the Raal. But so powerful.
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That's quite severe.
On the contrary, i think the RAALs are really in their kingdom for 2 full octaves (from 5khz and up)
8khz, that very high.
Maybe the 210-10 and 70-10 and 64-10... But the 70-20XR and 140-15 are perfectly able to provide excellent results at least for 2 octaves, IMO.
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I have not experienced RAAL ?
Please see post #1. I heard every one of them, except the dipole and some special models.
If you want power (efficiency + high SPL output), then go and try the 210-10D. That thing is scary powerful (but about totally unuseable below 4khz)
Just to give you an idea of how crazy powerful the 210-10D is, check the pictures:
That's a project i did last year, using 56x FR151 (5'' wideband) + 12x 10W6v3 + ...only a pair of 210-10D
Funny enough, the gains are adjusted to the max for the JLs and FR151, while the pair of 210-10D is minus 8db (!)
Of yes, the vertical dispersion is laser-like, but when you're in the beam it leads the bunch of drivers like it was nothing. 😱
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That's a project i did last year, using 56x FR151 (5'' wideband) + 12x 10W6v3 + ...only a pair of 210-10D
Funny enough, the gains are adjusted to the max for the JLs and FR151, while the pair of 210-10D is minus 8db (!)
Of yes, the vertical dispersion is laser-like, but when you're in the beam it leads the bunch of drivers like it was nothing. 😱
FYI: we are adjusting the laser-beam-like directivity of the 210-10D by using the metal chains on the walls, so the angle of those 4 meters heights speakers is modified as we need.
Works for us as a feature, in fact, because it's a showroom and we can control the high frequencies so they are not annoying for the passing customers. Works like a charm!
Works for us as a feature, in fact, because it's a showroom and we can control the high frequencies so they are not annoying for the passing customers. Works like a charm!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
