''Tonight, ladies & gentleman, let's hear Jean-Claude the mussel and Mr. Potato at the guitar!''
😛
Excellent. Thanks. I use two Max Fidelity 21" 21125 in 200 liters sealed boxes. Fs of 20Hz Qts: 0,34 Vas: 581 liters One of my favorite is the B&C 21SW115.
Why you prefered a low Qts ? A Fs/Qts ratio of around 50 should be considered for sealed box application if I'm not mistaken right?
Why you prefered a low Qts ? A Fs/Qts ratio of around 50 should be considered for sealed box application if I'm not mistaken right?
Only 2 series from JL are really worthy: W6 and W7.
Biggest features is their ability to withstand tremendous EQ correction even below the Fs and without any audible distortion or mechanical noises. That's very rare.
Also, the 10's versions are surprisingly usable up to 120-160hz, especially the 10w6v3. Which is very useful if you want real 20-40hz performance while not having to struggle with xover point of only 70-80hz...
Oh, and did i mention they don't require hundreds-liters enclosure to work well?
That being said, if i found ZE replacement for my Volt 2500.4 midbass, i'll surely try to push down the new midbass a bit, below 100hz, and then use 12v6v3.
So far, i'm thinking about this configuration (starting from the top):
JL 12v6v3
(?) midbass
RAAL 210-10
Voxativ AC-1.6
(?) midbass
JL 12v6v3
Can't really go wrong with that recipe anyways. Will sure sound better (and louder) than a pair of B&W 800's for less money... 😉
Sub woofer Size Vs performance
Way better than B&W for sure......!
On sub woofers, I have attached an accurate simulation (we will be testing in room for real next month) on our 18 inch driver.
Its outstanding features are its ability to make music sound like music and movie LFE sound like .....OMG take cover!
Each cabinet is small, only 59 litres internal volume (Vb plus driver displacement plus damping materials) 50cm by 50cm by 30cm external dimensions with 18mm stranded bamboo cabinet material.
The cabinets can be placed in the corners or against the wall of just about any room and produce incredibly tight and accurate bass with a total system Q of 0.707.
A pair of these crossed over at the THX standard of 80Hz to the 15 inch Precision devices mid bass will easily outperform any other combination of drivers that you can fit into the same / similar cabinet volume.
In room this combination will be flat to around 16Hz and can cruise at 80dB to 100dB all day & all night and instantly hit 120dB plus peaks if you feel the need....You can even stack a pair (or two!) in each corner if you need to fill another warehouse without using up more than a few square feet of floor space and no scaffolding required!😉
If you really want to go for life like dynamics without massive front loaded horns and all the compromises they bring, this is a great solution.
All the best
Derek.
Way better than B&W for sure......!
On sub woofers, I have attached an accurate simulation (we will be testing in room for real next month) on our 18 inch driver.
Its outstanding features are its ability to make music sound like music and movie LFE sound like .....OMG take cover!
Each cabinet is small, only 59 litres internal volume (Vb plus driver displacement plus damping materials) 50cm by 50cm by 30cm external dimensions with 18mm stranded bamboo cabinet material.
The cabinets can be placed in the corners or against the wall of just about any room and produce incredibly tight and accurate bass with a total system Q of 0.707.
A pair of these crossed over at the THX standard of 80Hz to the 15 inch Precision devices mid bass will easily outperform any other combination of drivers that you can fit into the same / similar cabinet volume.
In room this combination will be flat to around 16Hz and can cruise at 80dB to 100dB all day & all night and instantly hit 120dB plus peaks if you feel the need....You can even stack a pair (or two!) in each corner if you need to fill another warehouse without using up more than a few square feet of floor space and no scaffolding required!😉
If you really want to go for life like dynamics without massive front loaded horns and all the compromises they bring, this is a great solution.
All the best
Derek.
Hard for me to listen? I own both drivers... 🙄 No offense but personally i don't buy into the whole "enABL" crap either so don't try to guilt me with "...but you haven't listened to the enABL'd version".
There is really nothing more to 'imaging' than linear and non-linear distortion, and matching between channels. Low distortion and a good match in frequency response between the left and right channels will give you good imaging. Excessive non-linear distortion may give the impression of 'extra detail' or 'depth' or however you should describe it, but after listening long enough you realise that you're just listening to a bunch of non linear garbage. Non-linear distortion is known to increase sales of speakers from short term demonstrations because it gives a 'wow factor'. More often than not, after long term listening it leads to buyers remorse.
FF85WK has significantly more non linear distortion than the TC9 and sounds worse subjectively imo. The only thing going for it is slightly smoother frequency response and better sensitivity, not that i would consider the TC9 to be low sensitivity. Sensitivity is a non issue for me anyway - it only takes a few watts for these small drivers to produce bulk distortion. The FF85WK may make someone who has a flea powered amp and is scared by equalisation happy, otherwise it's pretty average.
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FF85wKeN? I haven't shipped any to Australia.
As to FF85wk i am just hoping a stock one retains some of the magic of the treated ones -- been a long time since i listened to a stock one.
The comment you are quoting refered to XRKs stab at DDR and only mentioned the TC9 as an example of a driver with poor DDR. I did not say anything else about its performance or lack thereof.
The phenomenom he descibes does exist, 10+ years ago i was calling it false detail, but high DDR is something very different.
dave
You realise there is a conflict of interest in making a comparison between two products, one which that you are the 'manufacturer' of?
Besides, your original post suggested the FF85WK not the "FF85wKeN". I stand by my statements that the FF85WK neither has notable performance nor represents value for money. I remain unconvinced that 'EnABLing' it would do anything to fix it's poor non-linear distortion.
It's larger brother (FF105WK) was not received favourably in this subjective test either.
Perhaps you would like to donate some EnABL'd drivers for the purpose of this test then? It would be the closest that many of us can come to a subjective evaluation of them without buying them.
I might talk to Jon, he seems to know what he is doing and has the gear, XRK's test is convolved with so much other stuff (and is mono) that it excludes so much important information as to be of only passing interest.
dave
dave
my hearing was severely damaged 40 years ago, so not sure if I even catch the bottom portion of the dynamics. My impression of digital audio in the early 1980's was that it was missing something on bottom part, not to say the analog lp route was perfect. Paul Klipsch thought something was amuck. I quit buying classical and jazz cds for a long time.
anyhow, could a track be produced with music (perhaps a string quartet) and dubbed narration as a means of searching for low level resolution? - play the track in a very quiet room with microphone reasonably close as to swamp some of the room's reverb and lower the input to the speaker in 10dB steps while raising the mic and preamp's gain? - i realize it should be done with a low noise mic/[preamp combo. Would the winner be the speaker with the highest articulation? or would frequency response bias the results? Leakage of outside noises such as traffic would be a problem as the gain is increased.
anyhow, could a track be produced with music (perhaps a string quartet) and dubbed narration as a means of searching for low level resolution? - play the track in a very quiet room with microphone reasonably close as to swamp some of the room's reverb and lower the input to the speaker in 10dB steps while raising the mic and preamp's gain? - i realize it should be done with a low noise mic/[preamp combo. Would the winner be the speaker with the highest articulation? or would frequency response bias the results? Leakage of outside noises such as traffic would be a problem as the gain is increased.
I think i just found our first contender for the semi-final:
Airborne FR151B8
http://www.solen.ca/pdf/airborne/fr151b822f.pdf
... but the version with paper cone instead of wood (lower Mms, +2dB, etc..)
Looks very promising, especially for the price.
Airborne FR151B8
http://www.solen.ca/pdf/airborne/fr151b822f.pdf
... but the version with paper cone instead of wood (lower Mms, +2dB, etc..)
Looks very promising, especially for the price.
We built a set of boxes for the wooden 6 1/2" version of those drivers (for Cal). Quite decent. Made by Guide-sound in Taiwan AFAIK, same company that makes the Audio Nirvanas.
dave
interesting - looks like a Guide-sound product. the F6 L.Cao is a nice 6, extending the old Diatone construction - I've not measured my F6 on a baffle to find out if the 1KHz dip is a property of the speaker, or if an artifact of the cabinet in which it was measured.
http://gui-sound.com/e_prd1.asp?pid=2
L.Cao F6 is level to ~15KHz on-axis, without a whizzer, and is more sensitive than Eminence's Delta Pro8A which is rated 97.8dB - F6 has a moving mass of only 6g - it "should" be good for "DDR" and appropriate for home if not pro use.
i think some of the 1K dip in my graph is due to the ~12" internal width of the Karlson type cabinet
who needs a whizzer when this thing can reach 20KHz?
this graph is mismarked - that was an 8 inch Crunch speaker in the K8, not 6.5
who could resist that beautiful cone ? - especially in contrast to the rather tragic looking but functional prototype
cabinet
http://gui-sound.com/e_prd1.asp?pid=2
L.Cao F6 is level to ~15KHz on-axis, without a whizzer, and is more sensitive than Eminence's Delta Pro8A which is rated 97.8dB - F6 has a moving mass of only 6g - it "should" be good for "DDR" and appropriate for home if not pro use.
i think some of the 1K dip in my graph is due to the ~12" internal width of the Karlson type cabinet
who needs a whizzer when this thing can reach 20KHz?
this graph is mismarked - that was an 8 inch Crunch speaker in the K8, not 6.5
who could resist that beautiful cone ? - especially in contrast to the rather tragic looking but functional prototype
cabinet
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